closing down mantis

[Tobi]

With the new LUA code that finds it's way into mods, there will be an increasing amount of bugs that are mod bugs, not engine bugs.

It can not be expected from the enduser to know which functionality is implemented by the mod and which functionality by the engine. Because the number of mod is ever increasing and there's only one engine which is more or less stabilizing, I think it is logical to conclude that the first person/organisation for endusers to file bugs to would be the mod/modder. This also fits within the general consensus that mods aren't really mods but really are separate games.

Those can then fix the bugs in their LUA scripts themselves, or forward engine bugs to the engine bug tracker.

Therefore I think it would be a good idea to lock down the engine bug tracker [mantis] to modders only.

(Or we could have one huge bugtracker with multiple projects, ie. one for the engine and one for each mod that can't host it's own.)

Opinions?

[Peet]

I like the latter idea, so that we don't lose any legitimate bug reports from non-modders; ones that turn out to be non-mod-related could easily be promoted to the engine bug category.

[Jonanin]

I think closing down mantis would be fine, but I think you should still give a way for legitimate bugs to be heard of. Whether it be via forums or a separate way.

[LordMatt]

tobi, do you really think this is needed now? I like being able to suggest people report bugs to mantis rather than having to do it for them.

[smoth]

Many mods are still not using lua. That being said, I think bug reports should go to the mod thread first. However, players run all kinds of damn lua stuff, both stable and unstable.

spring bug still exist.. better to be with then without. However, I think allowing the mod makers to report the bug is a decent compromise..

[Jonanin]

spring bug still exist.. better to be with then without. However, I think allowing the mod makers to report the bug is a decent compromise..

And qualified individuals, AI developers, people active(ly contributing) in the community, etc.

[KDR_11k]

AFAIK Lua should never enable a crash bug, right? At very least those things should go into Mantis.

[Neddie]

I like the latter idea, so that we don't lose any legitimate bug reports from non-modders; ones that turn out to be non-mod-related could easily be promoted to the engine bug category.

I agree.

[imbaczek]

I think that having invalid bug reports on mantis is better than not having them at all. Closing a bug with a "won't fix" takes only 3-4 clicks, after all, and we could ask some volunteer to do that in the obvious cases (with an appropriate but polite and helpful message, so potential reporters won't run away screaming.)

[Tobi]

I think I'm liking the second idea too.

imbaczek: The closing isn't what matters, as indeed that takes only a few sec once you have established the bug should be closed. This establishing can take a while tho, especially if you have no clue whether it's a mod bug or an engine bug.

Also, one of the reasons I actually like the second idea too, is that then instead of closing we could move the bug to the mod project, which is more userfriendly then just closing it.

But well, for the short term I guess asking people to reproduce using different mod could work too.

[zwzsg]

I don't see how closing means to report bugs can be a good thing, but if you do your idea of passing through modders, then we need some official mean of communication about mods And by that I mean subdivize the mod forum into a subforum for each mod >_<. Like, right now, I have found a bug in Gundam, and not sure what's the proper channel to tell Smoth about it, nor where to check if he already knows about.

[smoth]

Z, you could post in the gundam thread or pm me.

[semi]

I am not a modder. However I've sent some patches through mantis, and they've been accepted thus far. How would I do this in the future without mantis access? I think I can tell an engine bug from a mod bug when I have one.

But the most difficulty is that I have no idea how I would even report bugs to modders. I don't even remember who are BA devs :p

[malric]

I also think the latter is better.

I do not check Mantis that much, but I guess that at least some of the reporters know that a bug should be reproducible and that the problem should be described carefully - and that doesn't have anything to do with the fact that he is a modder or not.

[Saktoth]

Firstly, define modders? Anyone who can hack and FBI is a modder. BA, springs most popular mod, is nothing but .tdf/.fbi hacks, even the scripts changes are contributed by third parties.

Even so, i dont think noize and day would want to handle and forward the bugs through the appropriate channels (Doubt they have the time, inclination, or honestly, understanding of the engine), or have to deal with all the bugs that are found with the spring engine through their game.

Modders arent even the most appropriate- there is often a large gulf between engine contributors and content contributors, working entirely in separate spheres.

Restricting it to modders only would create a sort of clique of 'recognised modders' who are allowed to contibute, a sort of thing i dont think is appropriate for an open source mod.

If you want to delegate responsibilities, thats reasonable, but i dont think modders are the people to do it with.

[Tobi]

Thank you all for your input.

For now I'll keep things as it is, but in the end I think a setup where bugs can be moved from engine to mod and the other way round would be best.