There is only one reasonable thing about the monotheistic believes,
It is the acceptance of the existance of a certain something which is
in every way endlessly suprerior to us.
Anything beyond the acceptance of such a possibility is an ilusion,a comforting belief,like believing you will win the lottery(not the best example cause some people do but you get the point).
All you can logicly do is accept the popssibility of such an "entity"(any referance to it is obviously endlessly misleading since we cannot attribute any charactaristics to it).
You cannot refer to it in any human terms nor speak of it or even think of it and of course deffinatly not say that we can communicate with it,influance it in any way(by preying for exaple)or understand it.There can be no son of god,no messanger or oracle.
There can be no laws or rituals.
Saying god gave us the ten commendments is giving it human will,desire actions.
You say "god has given us the bible",that means that god has some expectations.
He "wants" us to do something,but god cannon want or expect.
It has no relation to our world at all,the owrld of human perception or though patterns.
Humans always tend to hink they are the center of everything.
The center of the earth,the center of the solar system,the center of the universe,the center of any spiritual believes or existance and so on.
You can believe in god in the usual way or you can not and there is no judgment or trial.
Nothing that anyone does is good or evil in some absolute undesputable way.
The only thing that kept humany on track were social laws,even at times when the religieous institutions were very powerfull.
wow.
Moderator: Moderators
Re: wow.
Why is believing in a omnipotent and incomprehensible god more reasonable than believing in a god with human characteristics?There is only one reasonable thing about the monotheistic believes,
It is the acceptance of the existance of a certain something which is
in every way endlessly suprerior to us.
Re: wow.
Because the nature of those characteristics had to come from somewhere, and this somewhere from somewhere else, and it keeps going this way forever. I think we can say that we will never understand the "true god", the force that created everthing. But this doesnt means there cant be "lesser gods" with conscience and personality, like, they could be vastly superior lifeforms influencing our lifes winhout we ever noticing that it was work from someone, like we can do with microorganismsBoirunner wrote:Why is believing in a omnipotent and incomprehensible god more reasonable than believing in a god with human characteristics?There is only one reasonable thing about the monotheistic believes,
It is the acceptance of the existance of a certain something which is
in every way endlessly suprerior to us.
Re: wow.
I was talking about logic.
You can,"believe",anything but christian god is all might all powerfull.
a God that can do anything etc..
You were talking about christianity,correct?boirunner.
An all powerfull etc etc god cannot be human like.
Humans are limited in every way.
Perhaps humanity as a whole isnt limited,we dont know that(perhaps it exists an endless amount of time and will exist forever)cause we did not witness the begining or have proof that there was no begining to humanity and we did not see the end of humanity as well nor do we know if humanity will ever sieze to exist.
What does not exist forever must be limited..
I think that the modern man can only see god in science.
It is the physical,biological,mathematical rules that are supposedly running the universe.They can be called god and they can represent god.
When something really good happens to us we feel a need to thank something,we dont know what because the world is so complicated and there are endless "coincidences" that we do not understand and that may harm us or may make life easier for us.
The best explanation to those "coincidences" atm can only be found in science.
Im do not believe in science as well but it has strong ties with religion already since things that have been proven in a scientific way cannot be attributed to god anymore thus religion trys to corellate with science,perhaps not so much the official religion but our own personal belief system.
You can,"believe",anything but christian god is all might all powerfull.
a God that can do anything etc..
You were talking about christianity,correct?boirunner.
An all powerfull etc etc god cannot be human like.
Humans are limited in every way.
Perhaps humanity as a whole isnt limited,we dont know that(perhaps it exists an endless amount of time and will exist forever)cause we did not witness the begining or have proof that there was no begining to humanity and we did not see the end of humanity as well nor do we know if humanity will ever sieze to exist.
What does not exist forever must be limited..
I think that the modern man can only see god in science.
It is the physical,biological,mathematical rules that are supposedly running the universe.They can be called god and they can represent god.
When something really good happens to us we feel a need to thank something,we dont know what because the world is so complicated and there are endless "coincidences" that we do not understand and that may harm us or may make life easier for us.
The best explanation to those "coincidences" atm can only be found in science.
Im do not believe in science as well but it has strong ties with religion already since things that have been proven in a scientific way cannot be attributed to god anymore thus religion trys to corellate with science,perhaps not so much the official religion but our own personal belief system.
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
Re: wow.
How can you "not believe in science"
Now, I can see the claim that there are elements of the scientific community lying for their own interests being valid... but fundamentally science is simply examining reality and attempting to differ understanding based on your observations, it's not something really questionable.
Now, I can see the claim that there are elements of the scientific community lying for their own interests being valid... but fundamentally science is simply examining reality and attempting to differ understanding based on your observations, it's not something really questionable.
Re: wow.
Scientific facts change all the time.
You can look at anything...physics,biology,psychology,medicine,chemistry.
All had tons of scientific "truths" that were later proved to be wrong.
In fact in 100 or 200 years if we do not perish we will have a totaly different grasp of reality.
People will be completly different with totaly different views about the world and most of our scientific facts will be thrown away for better ones.
Scientific theories go closey with apirical evidance.If you have a theory but no ampirical support it is forgotten.
Out scintific theories depend on what we can messure or not.
Science is an attempt to explain the world but fact is those explanations changed tremendeously during human history and will keep changing.
It is rediculeous to think that our generation will reach some fundemental truths that generations before us did not,we are like them a stepping stone to another stepping stone and so on.is there some end to scientific research?who knows.
I think that at some point the scientific methos will be abandoned or amended greatly just like it was once thought of by the greeks so a new and better system will become available.
Scientific facts are temporary truths,they are not absolute truths as well,and they do require a leap of faith.
You can look at anything...physics,biology,psychology,medicine,chemistry.
All had tons of scientific "truths" that were later proved to be wrong.
In fact in 100 or 200 years if we do not perish we will have a totaly different grasp of reality.
People will be completly different with totaly different views about the world and most of our scientific facts will be thrown away for better ones.
Scientific theories go closey with apirical evidance.If you have a theory but no ampirical support it is forgotten.
Out scintific theories depend on what we can messure or not.
Science is an attempt to explain the world but fact is those explanations changed tremendeously during human history and will keep changing.
It is rediculeous to think that our generation will reach some fundemental truths that generations before us did not,we are like them a stepping stone to another stepping stone and so on.is there some end to scientific research?who knows.
I think that at some point the scientific methos will be abandoned or amended greatly just like it was once thought of by the greeks so a new and better system will become available.
Scientific facts are temporary truths,they are not absolute truths as well,and they do require a leap of faith.
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Machiosabre
- Posts: 1474
- Joined: 25 Dec 2005, 22:56
Re: wow.
I thought the world was still round...but now I'm not so sure!
Re: wow.
How am i insane?should i remind you not so long ago people tryed to cure anything with liches?should i remind you people used to think the world was flat?should iremind you that people used to think there are "fluids" coming from different places that effect us.how about the fact people used to think thet things can just appear from nowhere..like worms in a dead corpse...people used to think the universe was static,people thought it was 3 dimensional,4 dimensional has 11 dimensions.
The world isnt round,it is an elipse.
light isnt just a wave anymore..
how aobut all kinds of different explanations t odiseasws and death before germs were discovered and people started washing their hands before doing operations?newtons whole concept of physical reality shaken by einstein?
Are you really saying that all theories at all time were correct?i eman why do i have to give any examples?you should be giving me example of ideas that servived very long wihtout being changed replaced and etc..how about dinosours? so many theories about their extinction and now we belive they died of a comet.how about the begining of the universe?
There are endless examples of things that were taken for granted and than after a few breakthroughs were turned upside down.
The world isnt round,it is an elipse.
light isnt just a wave anymore..
how aobut all kinds of different explanations t odiseasws and death before germs were discovered and people started washing their hands before doing operations?newtons whole concept of physical reality shaken by einstein?
Are you really saying that all theories at all time were correct?i eman why do i have to give any examples?you should be giving me example of ideas that servived very long wihtout being changed replaced and etc..how about dinosours? so many theories about their extinction and now we belive they died of a comet.how about the begining of the universe?
There are endless examples of things that were taken for granted and than after a few breakthroughs were turned upside down.
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Machiosabre
- Posts: 1474
- Joined: 25 Dec 2005, 22:56
Re: wow.
I guess science has some eggsplaining to do.
Re: wow.
We have 5 senses,we recieve input and than we translate it.
All science does is change the translation mechanism time after time.
We even learned how to use input we cannot directly recieve like different spectrums of light or different sound wave lengths.
the most crucial leap of faith is our belife that our world exists.
We cannot prove it but we must take it for granted or we cannot exist.
We interprete reality in different ways but it is still only an interpretaion,and perhaps will always be so.
All scientific advance has accomplished is the further growth of humanity.
In the larger scale thats what it has led to and nothing else.
On the grander scale,and this is my perrsonal opinion,there is no meaning for the individual in his life.
All we eventually do is procreate.That is one of the few meanings of life for an individual,that is to send a part of himslef onward to humanities future.
Our goals,the ones that can somehow be called goals are to be an active part of humanity and to procreate.same as the animals we have suposedly surpassed.
that is why some people at different times feel they suddenly need a spiritual life,because it is a source of meaning to their lives, a way to find a sort of universl meaning to life which otherwise simply does not exist.
We live we die and humanity keeps on going.
what im saying is that scientific progress is not that important of a role in the individual life of a human being,it is only an important factor for the whole of humanity as a way to expand and grow.
Science is not some absolute truth it is only a tool that changes depending on the needs of its user.
It only supports things that can be proven by looking touching hearing,practical reasons...we support what is practical and dont notice what is not that is the scientific method.
All science does is change the translation mechanism time after time.
We even learned how to use input we cannot directly recieve like different spectrums of light or different sound wave lengths.
the most crucial leap of faith is our belife that our world exists.
We cannot prove it but we must take it for granted or we cannot exist.
We interprete reality in different ways but it is still only an interpretaion,and perhaps will always be so.
All scientific advance has accomplished is the further growth of humanity.
In the larger scale thats what it has led to and nothing else.
On the grander scale,and this is my perrsonal opinion,there is no meaning for the individual in his life.
All we eventually do is procreate.That is one of the few meanings of life for an individual,that is to send a part of himslef onward to humanities future.
Our goals,the ones that can somehow be called goals are to be an active part of humanity and to procreate.same as the animals we have suposedly surpassed.
that is why some people at different times feel they suddenly need a spiritual life,because it is a source of meaning to their lives, a way to find a sort of universl meaning to life which otherwise simply does not exist.
We live we die and humanity keeps on going.
what im saying is that scientific progress is not that important of a role in the individual life of a human being,it is only an important factor for the whole of humanity as a way to expand and grow.
Science is not some absolute truth it is only a tool that changes depending on the needs of its user.
It only supports things that can be proven by looking touching hearing,practical reasons...we support what is practical and dont notice what is not that is the scientific method.
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MightySheep
- Posts: 243
- Joined: 11 Nov 2007, 02:17
Re: wow.
This is the weekend, my lecture free time.