TA mods are becoming toyish?

[Machiosabre]

oh cmon pressure line, you obviously started it, and got burned horribly.

[Peet]

Eh..I mostly agree with PL. About 1/2 of the time when I try to get *A players to play various nonta mods it ends up with them ragequitting due to their inability to adapt to a different style of play.

[Forboding Angel]

Unfortunately I too must agree.

I have set up Evolution to be as newbie friendly as I can, but among some of the more "Pro" players, if they start losing, they start ragequitting.

I'm not sure there is really any way to stem this behavior, unless ragequitting is handled in spring like it is in guildwars pvp.

In GW if you ragequit, then you cannot join any other games for 2 minutes, the more you do it, the longer the time gets. It's actually surprisingly effective.

[DZHIBRISH]

Forb.
I like the potential and look of ur mod but i cant understand where ur getting at.
You want to make a side that uses morphing as a base for teching and unit diversity or is it just a regular tank/arty/turret game where morphing plays a secondary role like in many other mods?
is there some special game concept there or is it meant to just have a different look ?

[quantum]

I reckon that the main factor that is limiting CA's market share is that people are unwilling to learn a new mod unless they are convinced it's really, really extraordinary. I think that is understandable, and anyway, those are the rules of the modding game. We've worked on trying to give tools to the players to help the transition, like in-game help, but it's still not enough.

Look at it this way. The cost is the learning process. The benefit is the new mod's fun. You just need to convince people that Benefit - Cost is positive. Players just want to have fun! You can't blame them for that.

[smoth]

TA mods are meant to be fun, I own a masterpiece starscream, I like toys that make me happy, effects are cool, arghs effects are nice and odd as always but I loved the color transition in the explosion, ta looks like ass anyway, anything is an improvement, the french have great cheeses /thread!

[rcdraco]

and then there was me.

I like being able to make a mod that I like and even though it's pretty basic effect, texture, and model wise, gameplay wise, I'm shooting for a much more fun style of gameplay using small squads and unique tools to use.

[SwiftSpear]

given the experiences of the past few days over in #s44... players dont *want* realism.

they want BA with new and exciting skins (realistically it doesnt matter if they are good or not, we are talking about the lowest common denominator here)

well... lets be honest, most people still come to spring for "sweet TA in 3d!!!" so if you give them anything other than TA it ends in tears, whining and raegquit.

As one of the most vocal antirealism advocates I want to clarify... I don't mind if models look realistic, I don't mind if exlosions and effects look and behave realistic, I don't mind if objects are animated realistically, I just don't have any support for a project that prioritizes realism over gameplay.

Often times you have to fundamentally change the way things work to make a realistic environment plausible for a game environment, that will acctually end up a fun game. Game developers shouldn't be afraid of that process.

[kiki]

Realism? Today I played kp for the first time. Im hooked. It is soo fun. I really hope people will play it online with me. I like simbase too. Its not real, but rather somewhat surreal. The teching system is a genius, the aircraft are awesome, and the who concept is so refreshing and fun to play. I do not yet understand evolution either, but I can already feel its coolness. Whats more than a TOTALLY UNREALISTIC floating ball of immense power as ur com? All of these mods have really made me excited. I hope people play these mods online.

[Pressure Line]

As one of the most vocal antirealism advocates I want to clarify... I don't mind if models look realistic, I don't mind if exlosions and effects look and behave realistic, I don't mind if objects are animated realistically, I just don't have any support for a project that prioritizes realism over gameplay.

Often times you have to fundamentally change the way things work to make a realistic environment plausible for a game environment, that will acctually end up a fun game. Game developers shouldn't be afraid of that process.

agreed 100% swift. theres absolutely no point making a super realistic game if its a boring un-fun chore to play.

however, thats usually not the issue. the issue is people have their favorite game (BA for ex). is the expectation that every RTS out there plays exactly like BA reasonable? no, of course its not. if a game has a different dynamic to another does it make one good and the other bad? no. if a player fails to adapt between two different games (BA and S44 for ex) does that make the game they cant/wont adapt to bad? no, it means the player is either stupid, or bloodyminded.

I would like to think that people who play spring are not stupid, so the conclusion to be drawn is that the players dont want to play S44 as is, they want to play WWII BA. which is a hell of a shame tbfh.

[DZHIBRISH]

Lies!!!I want WW2 realistic game,but that means slower gameplay,
not ba,ca like extreme rushing.
That is not WW2,and 44 also fails on the part of looks cause all the units are small.
Group soldiers outomaticly so that 1 unit is actually 5-6 soldiers,that way they can be seen better and u can allow urself to put a small icon above them at least(you cant do that if you have to put an icon on every unit cause that sux).(just take example from company of heroes its a proven system and even though u cant and shouldnt mimic it exactly you can use some of its features to your benefit.
I think that people who try to play WW2 mod are already mostly not people that only expect to see ota.

**edited**
I dont want to offend people but you expect too much.
Lets take kernal panic.Its a great mod but it isnt designed to be complex its more of a play a few games once in a while,and thats great.
Evolution imo is too similair to ota.
Its basiclly the same but with different models.
Why would i want to learn its different balance when i already know that ba has a very consistant and tweaked balance?
Gundam has its niche and i do think it should be played more.
I personnaly want to play gundam but usually you dont see people hosting it (smoth host it more please) and when i try to host it nobody joins.
I like fibre and gonna try and play it as much as i can.
If you want people to play your mods you need to give them a different experiance,seriously.Im not saying invent something completly original cause so much has ben done in the strategic games realm,but i am saying take some different game structure and make a mod based on it..like fibre for example.
There are tons of ideas like company of heroes gameplay style starcraft,warc3...C%C.I know that when you start making a mod you want it to be something original and something yours but you can take a good gameplay design and improve on it.of course the mods also needs to look well and consistant.

[Forboding Angel]

Forb.
I like the potential and look of ur mod but i cant understand where ur getting at.
You want to make a side that uses morphing as a base for teching and unit diversity or is it just a regular tank/arty/turret game where morphing plays a secondary role like in many other mods?
is there some special game concept there or is it meant to just have a different look ?

What are you talking about... 8 Units in the game can morph. It is not used as a core gameplay thing. I have no idea where you got that...

Morphing is there for convenience, nothing more.

[I2:Isaacment_Day]

since when anyone should listen to YAN?

Srsly.

E: me and fox disagree a whole lot but this is infallible

[Pressure Line]

got run-on sentences? Christ.

Lies!!!I want WW2 realistic game,but that means slower gameplay,
not ba,ca like extreme rushing.

Im not sure i get exactly what you mean. the only side in S44 capable of doing a quick rush is the USSR, and theres a balance issue involved in that. If you try to do a *A style rush (select big blob of units, move into enemy base), vs a competent opponent you will end up with nothing more than a lot of dead soldiers, wasted time and metal(command points). S44 is about using realistic strategies and tactics; sneak attacks, commando raids (uk only), artillery bombardment, scouting. the only times i direct rush will really work is a) when you have enough infantry to toally overwhelm your enemy, or b) your enemy is incompetent. In either case you would have won anyway.

That is not WW2,and 44 also fails on the part of looks cause all the units are small.

its intentional. people already cry about artillery wrecking their base from the other side of an 8x8 map. imagine if the size of every unit was doubled. that would require the ranges of all the weapons to be increased too. this causes major problems, like S44 only be played on the largest maps because of weapons and los ranges.

To me, and all the people who know wtf they are on about the scale is fine, maybe a tiny amount on the small side

Group soldiers outomaticly so that 1 unit is actually 5-6 soldiers,that way they can be seen better and u can allow urself to put a small icon above them at least(you cant do that if you have to put an icon on every unit cause that sux).(just take example from company of heroes its a proven system and even though u cant and shouldnt mimic it exactly you can use some of its features to your benefit.)

Excellent, you're volunteering to write the Lua scripting necessary to do this? how generous of you. Yes its planned, yes its coming, but no ETA on it.

Believe me when i say this about S44, if you try to play it like you play BA, you are doing it wrong and deserve to fail.

No wonder no modding team on the planet listens to DZHIBRISH's input on balance.

[Machiosabre]

with a name like DBZBRITISH you'd expect only good things

[Pressure Line]

with a name like DBZBRITISH you'd expect only good things

i lolled.

[SwiftSpear]

I'm going super sayian queen Elisabeth!

[smoth]

godzilla tea party super-orgy time.... alpha ..... 2

[DZHIBRISH]

You can hate and laugh but fact is many of the things i advocated are being done or have already been done.
You can hate and laugh as long as i get my points through.
First some of you complain your mods dont get played than your saying my gameplay suggestions are bad....

[Pressure Line]

First some of you complain your mods dont get played than your saying my gameplay suggestions are bad....

that wasn't what i said at all. i even carefully explained why they were not already implemented. Player inability/unwillingness to adapt is a major issue for all non-TA mods, the mentality of "well im pretty good at BA, but i suck at *othergame*. *othergame* must be crap and poorly balanced, i wont play it anymore." makes it even worse.