Budget: 1 - 1.5k USD (weaker than the euro but generally buys more computer stuff in america than euro does in europe)
WHat i have:
Mighty Mouse
Maybe a monitor
Various fans
Various useless components from gutted compys (although I think i have a good dvd/cd drive)
What I need:
Compix fusion to run well
SPring on full settings
Maybe supcom benchmark
dual core, preferably quad
Dont care about case, Ill just make one myself if I have to (stupid idea)
Under Construction
Moderator: Moderators
Re: Under Construction
A tower PC lasts a while, but a monitor is like a good chair, its a real investment and if its good it lasts and lasts and lasts, and gets added on to rather than continuously replaced. Choose wisely.
Re: Under Construction
I think he's referring to the case form factor... if you get a good big case it might take up a bit of room but you won't really ever need to replace it, you can just add a new components to the same one indefinitely... or he's crazy or something, I don't know.
I would recommend getting a full tower case as well if you don't have one... if you get a vanilla one they are like 20$.
I would recommend getting a full tower case as well if you don't have one... if you get a vanilla one they are like 20$.
Re: Under Construction
for sure, thought he meant something else. That would be the plan, something upgradable forever.
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Evil4Zerggin
- Posts: 557
- Joined: 16 May 2007, 06:34
Re: Under Construction
I say get roughly what neddiedrow is getting, sans the absord hard drive capacity unless you need that much room. If you want to spend more than $1,000 or so, you could look into getting a more powerful video card or a quad-core, but IMO after about $1,000 you start paying much more for each bit of performance boost.
As for form factor, generally I've found the larger mid-towers to be sufficient for me. It all depends how many drives you want, how large your video card is, and so on.
As for form factor, generally I've found the larger mid-towers to be sufficient for me. It all depends how many drives you want, how large your video card is, and so on.
Re: Under Construction
Can someone reiterate the stuff like best video card for money/performance, and for the processor too? Im going 64bit ubuntu/xp pro/ mayber vista = ~300 gb should be sufficient
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Evil4Zerggin
- Posts: 557
- Joined: 16 May 2007, 06:34
Re: Under Construction
Video Card: For a $1000 computer I would recommend the nVidia 8800 GT (not GTS or GTX, GT). It's the best deal of the 8 series (less than $300 for one of the most powerful cards available).
Processor: I'm not familiar with the details of which processors can be overclocked more than others. At stock, I would go with an E6750 (~$190) at 2.67 GHz. You could also try out quad-core with the Q6600 (~$280, 2.4 GHz), but few applications can really take advantage of more than two cores at the moment. The E6850 (same thing as the E6750, but at 3 GHz) also runs about $280.
Processor: I'm not familiar with the details of which processors can be overclocked more than others. At stock, I would go with an E6750 (~$190) at 2.67 GHz. You could also try out quad-core with the Q6600 (~$280, 2.4 GHz), but few applications can really take advantage of more than two cores at the moment. The E6850 (same thing as the E6750, but at 3 GHz) also runs about $280.
Re: Under Construction
Sounds better than I thought. It is feasible!
Re: Under Construction
If you are looking for a monitor, I'd recommend this one:
http://www.shopbot.ca/p-48709.html
I've researched around quite a lot and it sounds like a winner. I'll be buying one myself in a couple months.
Agree on the 8800 GT. MAKE SURE YOU GET THE NEWER MODEL WITH THE BIGGER FAN. There are two standard GT heat sinks. The old one sounds like a Geforce FX - like a vacuum cleaner, in other words. The new model has a bigger but quieter fan and actually keeps the card significantly cooler at lower RPM as well. Look it up you'll see what I mean.
"GAMING RAM" is bullshit. Memory timings mean nothing at all. You will see a maximum of 1-2% benefit from buying the most expensive ram to the cheapest, but the cost will be 2-3x more. Any RAM will do, and if you're sticking with XP, remember it can only handle 3 GB maximum - over that, and it will ignore any additional sticks. So I'd buy a 2x 1gb pack and a 2x 512mb pack. Do not buy a single 2 gb stick or something like that, always buy TWO, since if you have a motherboard made this century it will effectively double your memory bandwidth. Do not buy 3 sticks of ram, buy 2 or 4. If 2 sticks gives you 10 gb of bandwidth, 3 will give you 5 gb of bandwidth since the whole process now needs to slow down because it can't double-up the data... or somesuch. But that's the way it works.
For CPU cooler, go with the Zalman CNPS 9700. Best cost to benefit ratio and it's quiet.
Buy an Asus motherboard. Gigabyte and MSI are decent second choices but I've built a dozen computers with Asus motherboards, no problems - I've built 1 with gigabyte and 2 with msi, and got one bad msi and one poorly designed gigabyte.
Buy a LARGE case. Larger case generally means more airflow and lower temperatures, not to mention making building and maintenance easier.
Don't go cheap on fans, buy decent ones from a repuatable brand or you'll be replacing them every 3 months. Do not pay less than $80 for your power supply, and only buy from a well known brand, preferably one you can check feedback on.
Hard drives are cheap enough it's affordable to make a RAID array. If you go for that idea, buy 4 500 gb ones and put them together in a RAID 0+1 configuration, this is your best cost to benefit ratio with reasonable safety. Try to get from different batches but the same make, model, and manufacturer.
Don't bother with quad core right now. If you buy a socket 775 motherboard you'll be able to upgrade later if you decide to do so, but right now there are literally no programs that make use of more than 2 CPUs, aside from super high end professional software you can't afford anyway, and frankly in that case you'd probably be better off putting together a cheap cluster, not buying for your main computer.
If you get the opportunity you might want to look for a FreeAgent Pro external hard drive. They're really great to have around for cases when you want to transfer a lot of data to a friend, but don't want to spend a week burning DVDs.
Do not be suckered into buying anything that says "sli approved" or "vista compatible". This is roughly the same as buying a limited edition game - the game's the same, but it's got a flashier box. I've never needed heat sinks on my RAM, and in fact right now I'm using 2 gb of unbranded "Samsung" ram I bought off ebay from China. Nothing wrong with them. Their transfer rate is about 100 mb/s slower than my Patriot-brand ram (4400 compared to 4500 iirc) but they were about 1/4 the price. But the expensive patriot ram I'm having to RMA because one of the sticks is bad. You either get good ram or bad ram, there's no "high end" or "low end". The only thing that matters is their speed rating ("PC2-5300" "PC2-6400" etc).
Do research and build a computer that will let you run your RAM and CPU in sync while not overloading your motherboard. For instance right now I have a motherboard with a maximum RAM speed of 800mhz (PC2-6400). I have a CPU with a FSB of 266 (in actuality, it's 533 because you multiply by 2). So if I overclock my FSB, my motherboard won't be able to handle my memory going any faster, and will be unstable if it runs at all. So I must reduce my RAM to PC2-4200 (this is 533mhz) speed in order to be able to increase my FSB speed. HOWEVER notice that now my RAM and CPU are in sync - this is ideal. They are both running at 533. Now I can increase my FSB to 355 giving me about 3.15 ghz where I was getting 2.4 ghz before. And because my CPU and RAM are in sync, I get a little extra speed there as well. Unfortunately I don't have the best possible situation, since this leaves my RAM running at 715mhz while it is capable of 800mhz. If I had been smarter, I would've bought a motherboard that could handle faster RAM, and then I would've been able to run my RAM at the next highest speed, PC2-5300, and I'd be getting about 850mhz or so in my current situation.
If you have any questions PM or email me and I'll try to help. If you already know all this... at least I recommended a good monitor
http://www.shopbot.ca/p-48709.html
I've researched around quite a lot and it sounds like a winner. I'll be buying one myself in a couple months.
Agree on the 8800 GT. MAKE SURE YOU GET THE NEWER MODEL WITH THE BIGGER FAN. There are two standard GT heat sinks. The old one sounds like a Geforce FX - like a vacuum cleaner, in other words. The new model has a bigger but quieter fan and actually keeps the card significantly cooler at lower RPM as well. Look it up you'll see what I mean.
"GAMING RAM" is bullshit. Memory timings mean nothing at all. You will see a maximum of 1-2% benefit from buying the most expensive ram to the cheapest, but the cost will be 2-3x more. Any RAM will do, and if you're sticking with XP, remember it can only handle 3 GB maximum - over that, and it will ignore any additional sticks. So I'd buy a 2x 1gb pack and a 2x 512mb pack. Do not buy a single 2 gb stick or something like that, always buy TWO, since if you have a motherboard made this century it will effectively double your memory bandwidth. Do not buy 3 sticks of ram, buy 2 or 4. If 2 sticks gives you 10 gb of bandwidth, 3 will give you 5 gb of bandwidth since the whole process now needs to slow down because it can't double-up the data... or somesuch. But that's the way it works.
For CPU cooler, go with the Zalman CNPS 9700. Best cost to benefit ratio and it's quiet.
Buy an Asus motherboard. Gigabyte and MSI are decent second choices but I've built a dozen computers with Asus motherboards, no problems - I've built 1 with gigabyte and 2 with msi, and got one bad msi and one poorly designed gigabyte.
Buy a LARGE case. Larger case generally means more airflow and lower temperatures, not to mention making building and maintenance easier.
Don't go cheap on fans, buy decent ones from a repuatable brand or you'll be replacing them every 3 months. Do not pay less than $80 for your power supply, and only buy from a well known brand, preferably one you can check feedback on.
Hard drives are cheap enough it's affordable to make a RAID array. If you go for that idea, buy 4 500 gb ones and put them together in a RAID 0+1 configuration, this is your best cost to benefit ratio with reasonable safety. Try to get from different batches but the same make, model, and manufacturer.
Don't bother with quad core right now. If you buy a socket 775 motherboard you'll be able to upgrade later if you decide to do so, but right now there are literally no programs that make use of more than 2 CPUs, aside from super high end professional software you can't afford anyway, and frankly in that case you'd probably be better off putting together a cheap cluster, not buying for your main computer.
If you get the opportunity you might want to look for a FreeAgent Pro external hard drive. They're really great to have around for cases when you want to transfer a lot of data to a friend, but don't want to spend a week burning DVDs.
Do not be suckered into buying anything that says "sli approved" or "vista compatible". This is roughly the same as buying a limited edition game - the game's the same, but it's got a flashier box. I've never needed heat sinks on my RAM, and in fact right now I'm using 2 gb of unbranded "Samsung" ram I bought off ebay from China. Nothing wrong with them. Their transfer rate is about 100 mb/s slower than my Patriot-brand ram (4400 compared to 4500 iirc) but they were about 1/4 the price. But the expensive patriot ram I'm having to RMA because one of the sticks is bad. You either get good ram or bad ram, there's no "high end" or "low end". The only thing that matters is their speed rating ("PC2-5300" "PC2-6400" etc).
Do research and build a computer that will let you run your RAM and CPU in sync while not overloading your motherboard. For instance right now I have a motherboard with a maximum RAM speed of 800mhz (PC2-6400). I have a CPU with a FSB of 266 (in actuality, it's 533 because you multiply by 2). So if I overclock my FSB, my motherboard won't be able to handle my memory going any faster, and will be unstable if it runs at all. So I must reduce my RAM to PC2-4200 (this is 533mhz) speed in order to be able to increase my FSB speed. HOWEVER notice that now my RAM and CPU are in sync - this is ideal. They are both running at 533. Now I can increase my FSB to 355 giving me about 3.15 ghz where I was getting 2.4 ghz before. And because my CPU and RAM are in sync, I get a little extra speed there as well. Unfortunately I don't have the best possible situation, since this leaves my RAM running at 715mhz while it is capable of 800mhz. If I had been smarter, I would've bought a motherboard that could handle faster RAM, and then I would've been able to run my RAM at the next highest speed, PC2-5300, and I'd be getting about 850mhz or so in my current situation.
If you have any questions PM or email me and I'll try to help. If you already know all this... at least I recommended a good monitor
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
Re: Under Construction
Except that virtually all monitors are now obsolete due to LCD panels acctually getting good, and now constantly getting better too.AF wrote:A tower PC lasts a while, but a monitor is like a good chair, its a real investment and if its good it lasts and lasts and lasts, and gets added on to rather than continuously replaced. Choose wisely.
Re: Under Construction
Thanks alot caydr 
It sounds like good performance for cheaper price means overclocking.
It sounds like good performance for cheaper price means overclocking.
Re: Under Construction
Yes. Core 2 are very good for overclocking. I don't know about the 8800 GT, but if it's similar to the GTS I was able to increase my speed by about 25% for free with overclocking.
Re: Under Construction
good good :) Ill look some stuffs up
Re: Under Construction
While we're on the topic, does anyone know a place to buy super-high-quality CRT monitors? I would like one I can run at 2048x1536 with at least 75hz refresh, with good picture. Preferably a 19-22" model. Anyone?
The reason I want CRT is because LCDs still cannot duplicate the full gamut of color. As a result, when editing maps and that kind of thing, you can't actually see every step of color increase/decrease - it basically makes quality map editing all but impossible. There are other reasons besides this, but that's the one I'm most concerned with.
If you're willing to pay $300-500 you can get an LCD display that comes VERY CLOSE to duplicating CRT colour reproduction, but it will also have 16ms response time at the best, making it unsuitable for gaming.
I'd gladly pay $400 plus $100 shipping if I could get my hands on a true high quality display. Hell I'd buy a new desk even if that's what it took to have room for it.
The reason I want CRT is because LCDs still cannot duplicate the full gamut of color. As a result, when editing maps and that kind of thing, you can't actually see every step of color increase/decrease - it basically makes quality map editing all but impossible. There are other reasons besides this, but that's the one I'm most concerned with.
If you're willing to pay $300-500 you can get an LCD display that comes VERY CLOSE to duplicating CRT colour reproduction, but it will also have 16ms response time at the best, making it unsuitable for gaming.
I'd gladly pay $400 plus $100 shipping if I could get my hands on a true high quality display. Hell I'd buy a new desk even if that's what it took to have room for it.
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clumsy_culhane
- Posts: 370
- Joined: 30 Jul 2007, 10:27
Re: Under Construction
Well, as a proud owner of a 21" CRT, i can agree with you here (on the durability and better colour). Apart from the weight, I personally thinks it looks better than most mid range 22/19 inch lcds. I got might through http://www.comtrader.com.au about a year ago, for $80 Australian. Its a Compaq P110, with trinitron tube.. and its still going great (brightness, the thing that dies in CRT's, is still great.)Caydr wrote:While we're on the topic, does anyone know a place to buy super-high-quality CRT monitors? I would like one I can run at 2048x1536 with at least 75hz refresh, with good picture. Preferably a 19-22" model. Anyone?
The reason I want CRT is because LCDs still cannot duplicate the full gamut of color. As a result, when editing maps and that kind of thing, you can't actually see every step of color increase/decrease - it basically makes quality map editing all but impossible. There are other reasons besides this, but that's the one I'm most concerned with.
If you're willing to pay $300-500 you can get an LCD display that comes VERY CLOSE to duplicating CRT colour reproduction, but it will also have 16ms response time at the best, making it unsuitable for gaming.
I'd gladly pay $400 plus $100 shipping if I could get my hands on a true high quality display. Hell I'd buy a new desk even if that's what it took to have room for it.
I don't know where you live Caydr, but all the best in finding one :)
EDIT: you spelt colour, color so you must not live in Australia
Re: Under Construction
If you don't mind it only lasting a few years it seems that the easiest place to get good CRTs is refurbished... my friend has a 22 incher that gets up to 1600xwhateveritis and looks excellent... I deffinitely prefer CRT myself aside from the obviouse increase in space requirement (I run a 19" CRT)
Re: Under Construction
I am boycotting crts. To make me feel better about the energy going into my video cards.
Re: Under Construction
Well, no, I don't live in Australia, but I should be spelling it colour - I'm just a dirty hypocrite. I'm in Canada.clumsy_culhane wrote:EDIT: you spelt colour, color so you must not live in Australia
Re: Under Construction
Despite being Canadian I've been programming since I was like 10 and you use color in everything from QBasic to C++ so sometimes I forget to put the U in too.