balancing ta mods

[clericvash]

all these aa, ba etc etc

all you guys do is try to balance, but seriously you balance one thing and then somewhere else something else becomes imbalanced, is it not just a loosing game trying to "balance"

[tombom]

this film gives an interesting perspective on these issues

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QaSxCvyvCyI

[KDR_11k]

all these aa, ba etc etc

all you guys do is try to balance, but seriously you balance one thing and then somewhere else something else becomes imbalanced, is it not just a loosing game trying to "balance"

No, you just have to balance the whole thing instead of just one unit.

[clericvash]

all these aa, ba etc etc

all you guys do is try to balance, but seriously you balance one thing and then somewhere else something else becomes imbalanced, is it not just a loosing game trying to "balance"

No, you just have to balance the whole thing instead of just one unit.

Yeah but thats what i am saying, you can't balance everything at once, as soon as you touch one unit another needs changing, then another and it goes around in circles.

No one person can say if something is balanced or not.

It is a loosing battle.

[clericvash]

this film gives an interesting perspective on these issues

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QaSxCvyvCyI

And no it doesn't...

[Boirunner]

in what way do ta mods differ from other mods in this aspect?

[zwzsg]

Balance is the only thing TA mods (claim to) have. Non-TA mods have other aspects, but for TA mods, since the balance is the only thing changed, it's the only argument they can cling to.

Ok, actually some TA mods have new models, new sfx, new LUA, so this overgeneralisation doesn't always apply.

[Pxtl]

Balance is the only thing TA mods (claim to) have. Non-TA mods have other aspects, but for TA mods, since the balance is the only thing changed, it's the only argument they can cling to.

Ok, actually some TA mods have new models, new sfx, new LUA, so this overgeneralisation doesn't always apply.

They also have familiarity for OTA players going for them. Wait, no they don't. Honestly, I played a lot of OTA and I found KP and EE easier to pick up than BA or XTA.

[hrmph]

all these aa, ba etc etc

all you guys do is try to balance, but seriously you balance one thing and then somewhere else something else becomes imbalanced, is it not just a loosing game trying to "balance"

Balancing one thing does not necessarily put another thing out of balance.. Remember when AA was so imbalanced all you had to do was spam tons of weasels and you could own? Well, I don't see how nerfing the weasel unbalanced anything..

Just because sometimes a change can unbalance other things, doesn't mean it happens every time.

[Sleksa]

Balance is the only thing TA mods (claim to) have. Non-TA mods have other aspects, but for TA mods, since the balance is the only thing changed, it's the only argument they can cling to.

Ok, actually some TA mods have new models, new sfx, new LUA, so this overgeneralisation doesn't

No not really. The name BA comes from WarC BALANCING AA 2.24 OP WEASELS.

all these aa, ba etc etc

all you guys do is try to balance, but seriously you balance one thing and then somewhere else something else becomes imbalanced, is it not just a loosing game trying to "balance"

! A FINE EXAMPLE OF RETARDATION !

IN a game like total annihilation and Supcom , there is a need for a MAIN COMBAT UNIT, which is OFTEN MISTAKENLY REFERRED AS IMBA. s44 has smgs and rifles, ba has flash, CA has stumpy/flash or something. These units often form the CORE of the army, upon which the player BUILDS up the game, later going air, or fast expansion, etc. regardless of the strategy the MAIN COMBAT UNIT is almost always needed.

A FINE EXAMPLE OF A IMBA UNIT is aa 2.23 WEASEL, which dominated the whole game, destroying all the need for other units to be used in game. THIS WAS GAME-BREAKING, it ruined the fun people had from the game. So a NERF was applied by WarC, along with other changes WarC deemed fit, and a few experimental changes, like rez bots on tier 1 kbot lab.

IN A NORMAL TA-LIKE GAME

there are main combat units, upon which the players build up the game, IMBA units break this setting by removing any need for everything else in the game, and making the IMBA unit impossible or extremely hard to counter with NORMAL units. So a NERF is a MUST HAVE tool of the modmakers.

HOWEVER HUMANS ARE NOT MACHINES, and such cannot create a fully balanced totally perfect paradise of a game even if you cry and stomp the ground for 10 years. ERRORS will happen, like the JANUS of one BA version, or the STORMS.

IN YOUR PERVERTED WORLD

NERFING one unit will automatically REPLACE the nerfed unit with ANOTHER unit of a different name. HOWEVER THIS IS NOT THE CASE.

IN A NORMAL WORLD

NERFING one unit will make the NERFED unit to fit on par with the other units as the modmakers deem fit. HOWEVER, as i already said, errors will happen , but this is not a NATURAL thing, but rather a ERROR.


ALSO

Most modmakers strive to create games with focus on FUN, COMPETITIVE ENVIROIMENT, and BALANCE, or MOD CONCEPT.

BA FORKS are done by people who deem ba's BALANCE to be BROKEN and thus try to prove this by creating forks of their own that supposedly fix these errors. THEY HAVE NO GOAL OTHER THAN THIS.

[quantum]

You don't need a main combat unit. CA doesn't have one, and tries to be free of excessively generalist units for that reason.

[Sleksa]

ok ca is a exception and follows rock paper scissors -> swarm -> anti swarm -> something line then lulz

[Otherside]

its not rock paper scissors



u need a mixed force to win altho most good players beat noobs with one unit spam but thats like with most mods :p and games

[manored]

Needind a mixed force to win is rock-paper-scissors, since it means that if you forgot to bring one type you lose :)

I never tried making a mod, but I think that it might be easier taking something as a basis (maybe a unit like Sleksa said) and building the rest around it.

[Otherside]

CA has a core units i always seem to have stumpys regardless of tech wen i go arm vehicle

or zeus as a core regardless of what other kbots i have

so it has its core units...

[zwzsg]

But do you always win with this strat?

Any mod I could force me to build only one unit, doesn't mean said unit is better. More complex is that elite player can win by building solely any single kind of unit, no matter which.


Though it's nice to see some people realised that having a main unit and some niche units doesn't mean it's imba.

[Forboding Angel]

mad sleksa is mad

[DZHIBRISH]

You dont need a main combat unit and you dont need rock paper scissors..
Sattements about ota mod needing one of the above can only be made by people who didnt give enough objective tough to game balancing or mistake their personnal preferances for absolute truth.
Just cause you think ba needs a unit like flash which is obviously unbalanced by any normal strategy game standards doesnt mean its true.
Day an Noize decided thats how they want it,they decided they want a "main unit" it doesnt have to be so as we can see in other mods.
You retarded comments sleksa are beyond any type od stupidity I encountered on the net before.
Ba forks have the same goal ba had,making a balanced mod.
Fact is ba is not balanced and you said it yourself there is a "main unit" like flash or gator,that cannot be called in any other way but imbalance.

[DZHIBRISH]

The only person who approached the problem in the correct way was Tired who at least tried to use equations to make any unit be as cost effective as any other.
Lets us remember that ota was about the possibility to use any unit,and if you use it right you can win with it.Each unit should have called for a different strategy with which it would be mad possible to win.
ba is flash/gator spam,you can call it in any way you want,main battle unit or whatever...
ca is rock paper scissorc and has wondered off from total annihilation's concepts for beter or worse.It is nothing like ba.

[KingRaptor]

No wonder no modding team on the planet listens to DZHIBRISH's input on balance.