Mods to Be Made Available in the Spring Installer

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 05 Dec 2007, 22:36

I'd say that offering various ways to handle such a list would be cool, including a "random" button. We're really, really obstructing new users' experiences right now, because they get Spring, only see a OTA-based game, everybody tells them to go get another one, and probably sends them a link to BA... same with maps... I'd be really surprised, tbh, if the average Spring player on the Lobby even knows how to use UF at all. Maybe I'm wrong, or whatever, but I doubt it.

And dammit, whatever list is available... should just take users to the appropriate place in UF, and should reflect that query. That way, Spring doesn't have to maintain ANYTHING- no screenshots, no text... NOTHING. Just run a query, and show it in a browser, then open up whatever browser people use if they click on it. Have it grab the screenshot from UF's auto-shunken shots- they use a common naming schema, IIRC...

Let game designers maintain their products. Just give us a way to advertise properly. The chokepoint has always been that we (developers) cannot stay on top of everything, make the best damn games possible with the engine... and also be amazing marketers at the same time...

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 05 Dec 2007, 23:04

Argh, you're missing the point. The installer is supposed to offer you a list, you check what you want, click Go and GET IT. You don't get a browser window pointing at some arcane site or anything, you get an installed mod AS AN INSTALLER SHOULD ACT.

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 06 Dec 2007, 00:05

But, if you can't see any pictures or screenshots... what's going to make users tempted to try anything new? Should I put "has naked women" in all of my game's names so that people actually know I'm not working on a OTA rebal?

It's not just an installer that's the issue. It's how that installer displays meaningful choices- if I'm a player, do I pick to install what everybody on #main says... or do I click on that fabulously-cool icon for PURE?

I've been saying this for well over a year now- and if there's any time to do it, it's now. I still think we should have an optional, Steam-style starting page for the client, so that we can show people what's available on Spring, as it's released, as well. In fact, I think it's a much better way to go about this than just through the installer, where it's static and dependent on update schedules, tbh.

This is the only way things are going to change, people- time and experience have shown us that even if games are delivered that are interesting and have novel designs, like KP, that they don't grow an audience. This is largely because the average Spring player doesn't know what the game is about, hasn't seen any sexy screenshots, and is basically not going to know why it's important. TEXT DOES NOT SELL WELL.

So, if it needs a picture to be included with our request or whatever... fine... but it needs to be graphical! Not just a + sign in an installer, with absolutely no information to users about what's going on.

cong06 · Post by **cong06** » 06 Dec 2007, 00:06

KDR_11k wrote:You don't get a browser window pointing at some arcane site or anything, you get an installed mod AS AN INSTALLER SHOULD ACT.

It's also annoying to load firefox when I specifically closed it to reduce resource drain when I chose to play a game.
Working behind the scene to download is better.

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 06 Dec 2007, 00:10

It's not the technical method that matters, people. I don't care if it uses a browser, or acts as a mini-browser, going to a FTP and reading / displaying very specific text files and images! The point is that I've seen how the current installer works... and it's not a good model. PICTURES. SHOW USERS PICTURES. LET ME MARKET PROPERLY. Without spamming #main, or wasting countless hours spamming RTS forums, or resorting to sock-puppet behavior, etc., etc., etc.

cong06 · Post by **cong06** » 06 Dec 2007, 00:34

Argh wrote:PICTURES. SHOW USERS PICTURES. LET ME MARKET PROPERLY. Without spamming #main, or wasting countless hours spamming RTS forums, or resorting to sock-puppet behavior, etc., etc., etc.

I would like if one could see a bit more of a thumbnail from the map without having to download the mod and look at it myself.

and I agree. pulling from the website is the best way.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 06 Dec 2007, 00:41

+9001 to everything argh just said. My thoughts exactly.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 06 Dec 2007, 01:22

Since apparently I have to prove quality of some sort now... http://youtube.com/watch?v=d7c1lBmX2-0

BTW to reiterate some stuff that you guys don't seem to be understanding... There is no point for me to release evolution for this version of spring. It doesn't work. About 60% of the mod is broken in this version due to reliance on svn features etc etc.

Why should I have to release a "Broken" mod? Cause ppl would dl it, then discard it cause it doesn't work. It is very much unfair for you to ask me to do that lordmatt.

Saktoth · Post by **Saktoth** » 06 Dec 2007, 02:20

Forboding Angel wrote:Since apparently I have to prove quality of some sort now... http://youtube.com/watch?v=d7c1lBmX2-0

I think he means gameplay quality, which you cant prove at this point.

I agree we shouldnt include stupid mods, or mods that are just -broken- (and i mean, wont run, crash, etc) but since all downloading is optional, i see no reason not to include all the mods that actually work, especially original ones.

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 06 Dec 2007, 02:53

I see no reason why this thread and in fact this entire concept was a bad idea..

this is going to generate drama based solely on its own purpose.. making this general discussion is a bad idea as well..

No polls no asking, no discussing.. if your adding stuff to the installer DO IT.. if your not.. then dont.. but for the love of god dont make threads like this.. nothing will be accomplished.. oh and to all of you with the EE ++ bullcrap..

Code: Select all

#define +EE

EEsucks()
{
if (+EE >= 0)
}
set +EE  to -1;
}
else
{
sleep 100;
}
}

rattle · Post by **rattle** » 06 Dec 2007, 03:12

*Balanced Annihilation (BA) - Balanced Annihilation is a mod of Total Annihilation, and is currently the most popular game. It is a 10.4MB Download.
*XTA - XTA is a mod of Total Annihilation, with a small but devoted following. It is a 9.0MB Download.

No offense but that's not very useful for a description.

People who played TA (and some of it's mods) might like to know that BA for example is a derivate of UH (more or less), and people who never heard of TA probably probably would like to know what it is about rather than "most popular mod" or TA mod "with a small but devoted following".

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 06 Dec 2007, 03:52

Yeah, to old ta people the UH base would sound good until we see they took a lot of the stuff out.

and non-older players will not know what the hell uh is.

Probably be a good idea would be to call it TA++;

DZHIBRISH · Post by **DZHIBRISH** » 06 Dec 2007, 14:49

I want my mod to be available..
I think it is very well balanced and is totaly ready to be played.

My mod is called TFM-The Fifth Millennium.
If you dont know what that is..try it..

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 06 Dec 2007, 16:38

Fanger wrote:congradulations sleksa.. that was totally neccessary..

Anywho.. why dont we conduct this little escapade covertly and have the people in charge just add stuff instead of involving the peanut gallery..

Idunno, I agree with Sleska on that joke. TPM is "yet another AA-derived rebalancing mod". Since BA has utterly dominated the lobby in that category, it really doesn't make sense to clutter the mod list with all those little mutators. Those games have very little to distinguish themselves from the next, so it makes sense to be skeptical about including them, particularly since they're not popular.

To be clear: I don't like BA. But it is by far the most popular mod within a family of AA-derived games, and it makes little sense to include any of the others in the mod list since most of them could be described as "like BA but with ...", considering their tiny followings.

At least the underplayed from-scratch mods are still identifiably distinct - you wouldn't describe Gundam within the context of any other Spring mod, would you? EE isn't "Like BA, but without metal makers". It visibly stands apart.

CarRepairer · Post by **CarRepairer** » 06 Dec 2007, 17:33

Smiff wrote:
... ... ...

edit: i think referring to "mods" as "games" (and Spring as "engine" or something) would make Spring more user friendly. is not obvious to some how important a "mod" is (!)

This is a very good and important idea, did anyone else notice this in the sea of mod discussion?

tombom · Post by **tombom** » 06 Dec 2007, 17:35

It's been gone over before but nobody can really be bothered to change and you end up with people demanding that certain mods be called mods and certain others called games based on some certain criteria and it just gets silly.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 06 Dec 2007, 19:48

AF states the truth, but unfortunately the people in charge of this stuff are dedicated to BA, so nothing will change.

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 06 Dec 2007, 21:06

Stop whining about BA, it's almost a necessity if you want to get a game going so why not put it into the installer? Because it offends your personal sense of quality? It doesn't seem to do that for hundreds of other people. People like it, what more does a mod need?

While I agree we should limit the number of TA mods that's taking care of itself anyway, BA and XTA are in, CA has opted out and the rest is being ignored. Shame about EE, it's probably the most popular proper non-TA mod so omitting it seems like a big loss but when Fang doesn't want it to be there...

As for different installer packages, WHY??? Why do you need a separate installer just to offer different checkboxes? The data is downloaded afterwards anyway.

imbaczek · Post by **imbaczek** » 06 Dec 2007, 21:25

Not including KP (at least evilless) will make baby Jesus cry. Have that in mind.

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 06 Dec 2007, 21:36

I suggest we lock this, hash out in a private manner via PM what stuff you want in the installer.. hell dont actually ask people.. only people who need worry are the people making the darn installer.. then put the stuff in. Package and Go.. no fuss no muss..

This thread was going to start drama and bAWWW the minute you started it because you are basically saying ok guys Pick Teams.. someone gets picked last complains about it and then the whole BA IS EVIL argument surfaces and sleksa comes in and destroys any possibility of a non flamewar happening.. So ffs dont make this public.. put what you think you ought to in the fething installer and run with that..

Spring RTS Engine

Mods to Be Made Available in the Spring Installer