I know that. I play Spring a lot. I'm not picking a mod for myself, I'm picking a mod for a bunch of my friends who want to meet online and play a game without having to completely re-learn everything.neddiedrow wrote:BOTA is fun, but... well, if you want OTA, I'd say you're setting your sights pretty low.
Best TA/Spring mod for OTA players/noobs?
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SpikedHelmet
- MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
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Okay, checking back, we played BOTA.
Played many, many rounds of BOTA. And pretty much decided that BOTA has too many nasty surprises for OTA players. We played some games on Mars, some on Sands of War, and some on Sherwood. All of them FFA. I've mentioned some of this before, but some of this is new:
Things we liked:
1) More units are useful. None of this "spaem crasher" business. That part of BOTA is seriously incredibly beautiful. We have really, really diverse armies.
2) Cheap L2 factories. Good to be able to have an early L2.
3) Gunfighters are cool.
4) Pretty models.
Things we didn't like:
1) Seriously, the combat transports. First off, they're a staggering surprise. Second, they're overpowered. I transported some rockos on SOW, and the rockos were totally forgettable next to the transports.
2) Subs. I see what they were trying to do with the instagib subs, but first off - it's a huge surprise for an OTA player (WTF sub health???) and second, they're just not good enough against destroyers.
3) Craters. Cratered battlefields make tank-attacks impossible.
And found some bugs:
1) BLODs kill friendlies.
2) Boats have the "slow moving with con order" bug.
3) I don't know if it's just that his arm takes forever to raise, but I couldn't get the corcomm to fire his laser. Had to dgun all adversaries.
Not to bash BOTA (if it's what you're looking for, more power to you) but it's not really working out for us.
Is Classic TA 5.6 better? To make it clear: we LIKE the rebalanced units. We just don't like the surprises. It's one thing to adjust the stats to make a unit more useful, it's another to completely change it into something totally new.
Or should I be working on my own "No Suprises Rebalanced OTA" based on BOTA?
Played many, many rounds of BOTA. And pretty much decided that BOTA has too many nasty surprises for OTA players. We played some games on Mars, some on Sands of War, and some on Sherwood. All of them FFA. I've mentioned some of this before, but some of this is new:
Things we liked:
1) More units are useful. None of this "spaem crasher" business. That part of BOTA is seriously incredibly beautiful. We have really, really diverse armies.
2) Cheap L2 factories. Good to be able to have an early L2.
3) Gunfighters are cool.
4) Pretty models.
Things we didn't like:
1) Seriously, the combat transports. First off, they're a staggering surprise. Second, they're overpowered. I transported some rockos on SOW, and the rockos were totally forgettable next to the transports.
2) Subs. I see what they were trying to do with the instagib subs, but first off - it's a huge surprise for an OTA player (WTF sub health???) and second, they're just not good enough against destroyers.
3) Craters. Cratered battlefields make tank-attacks impossible.
And found some bugs:
1) BLODs kill friendlies.
2) Boats have the "slow moving with con order" bug.
3) I don't know if it's just that his arm takes forever to raise, but I couldn't get the corcomm to fire his laser. Had to dgun all adversaries.
Not to bash BOTA (if it's what you're looking for, more power to you) but it's not really working out for us.
Is Classic TA 5.6 better? To make it clear: we LIKE the rebalanced units. We just don't like the surprises. It's one thing to adjust the stats to make a unit more useful, it's another to completely change it into something totally new.
Or should I be working on my own "No Suprises Rebalanced OTA" based on BOTA?
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Pressure Line
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Pressure Line
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- Joined: 21 May 2007, 02:09
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Complicated
- Posts: 369
- Joined: 06 Jun 2007, 18:51
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Complicated
- Posts: 369
- Joined: 06 Jun 2007, 18:51
Have not tested using SVN. Probably would solve it, but then I have to wait for SVN version.KDR_11k wrote:You mean Zeuses shoot each other in the back? Have you tested SVN? That allows collidefriendly=0 on hitscan weapons.
Anybody got a good guide for XTA units for OTA players? I'm starting to think that playing these smaller, unsupported mods is a loser's game.
http://www.xtaforever.com/forum/index.p ... ,46.0.html
The dragon's teeth elements of the guide are made somewhat redundant by changes in targetting behaivour since IK wrote the guide, but it is otherwise pretty solid.
It does somewhat rely on the idea of an aa bot/com push start, which i personally detest, althought it is a viable strategy.
Aside from some of the arm t2 bots, the xta unit set is pretty intuitive: longer range/high dps units tend to have less health, there are no semi-random damage classes; all weapons do standard damage to all units, apart from sniper vs com (damage reduction) and artillery units vs sea (damage increase) but these would only be noticeable to a none noob anyway.
Due to XTA's smaller community, we are generally pretty welcoming to new players, and the majority of us are more than willing to answer a newbies questions or guide them through a few games
/j #xta helps new players a hell of a lot as well
The dragon's teeth elements of the guide are made somewhat redundant by changes in targetting behaivour since IK wrote the guide, but it is otherwise pretty solid.
It does somewhat rely on the idea of an aa bot/com push start, which i personally detest, althought it is a viable strategy.
Aside from some of the arm t2 bots, the xta unit set is pretty intuitive: longer range/high dps units tend to have less health, there are no semi-random damage classes; all weapons do standard damage to all units, apart from sniper vs com (damage reduction) and artillery units vs sea (damage increase) but these would only be noticeable to a none noob anyway.
Due to XTA's smaller community, we are generally pretty welcoming to new players, and the majority of us are more than willing to answer a newbies questions or guide them through a few games
/j #xta helps new players a hell of a lot as well
That's effectively a guide to play TA, which my friends already know. I was looking more for a guide that tells OTA players what to expect in XTA. Stuff like "OMG, your Golis are HUUUUGE!" and the wierd Comm build-tree ("wtf, comm maek adv facs?") - I haven't played XTA since v7. Does it have shoot-through-friendlies? Cratering? Impact?
Units do not fire through friendlies, weapons create craters, explosive weapons more noticeably so, and i am not sure what you mean about impact. Perhaps impulse? Explosions create a shockwave which physically moves units, if that is what you mean (try a roach in the middle of some peewees 
)
Tbh OTA had some serious balance problems, about 65% of the units were useless, and stuff like line bombing/hawk dancing/lul ur mizzile dnt hit mai pelicans on wator!1 make me feel that making direct comparisons in terms of cost etc isn't really appropriate.
Off the top of my head, here are some of the major differences which may catch you out:
T1 gunships, they can drop a com in seconds, do not equate these to ba/ca t1 gunships they are far more lethal
Sumo/Golly are massively exaggerated and in both cost and effectiveness compared to ota
Freaker and Zipper are t1, and flea is t2 (awesome swarm unit)
AA bots target ground, they function much like samson/slasher (flak also targets ground, high ROF and good AOE make them great anti swarm)
Leveller is a t2 flame tank
Warrior is t2, and an excellent skirmisher/raider
Both F.A.R.K. and Necro can resurrect, have extremely powerful nanolathes, and a limited build menu (Necro has access to greatly superior defences than F.A.R.K.)
Spiders fire a constant beam, as opposed to a single shot, making them much more viable, although they require a fair amount of micro to be effective
Penetrator fires a constant beam (think ota one fired like a sniper, just with a really shitty aim speed)
Antinuke is cloakable
LLTs are a lot more expensive than in b/ca and dont really stand up to a t1 force of anything other than a few peewee/ak at all, they are point defense and nothing more.
Moho mines cost 300e/tick to run
Core get access to the minifusion with t2 builders, whereas Arm get the mobile fusion from the t2 vehicle lab. This is the crux of the faction differention, and marks quite a departure from ota tbh. In order of total energy produced (and cost): mini/mobile fus --> Cloakable fus --> Full fus
Core has a vastly superior economy, as they get necros and minifusion from 1 lab, and also have better defensive structures, the annihilator aside. Arm are far more mobile than core, and have much better raiding units than core does (fleas, warriors and panthers). Arm t2 kbots are extremely powerful and versatile, but it is difficult to maintain an adequate energy output to power the mohos necessary to build them without access to mobile fusions; you are forced to invest a lump sum into a cloakable or full fusion, or mass vunerable t1 economy. Your ability to grow exponentially is drastically impaired by going t2 Arm bots, you really need to push for a quick kill if you decide to do this.
Hrm this post is getting way longer than I intended, suffice to say XTA places more emphasis on intelligent choice and use of units than on scrabbling to outproduce your opponent and smash into his llts with a horde of t1 units. The reason i would suggest it is closer to OTA than other derivative mods is that it doesnt include a host of uberhack units and structures: arm have no t3, there are no shield generators, commandos, nuke bombers etc, and this coupled with the lack of a multitude of armour classes gives a far greater degree of "what you see is what you get" in your units.
Sry for long post
)Tbh OTA had some serious balance problems, about 65% of the units were useless, and stuff like line bombing/hawk dancing/lul ur mizzile dnt hit mai pelicans on wator!1 make me feel that making direct comparisons in terms of cost etc isn't really appropriate.
Off the top of my head, here are some of the major differences which may catch you out:
T1 gunships, they can drop a com in seconds, do not equate these to ba/ca t1 gunships they are far more lethal
Sumo/Golly are massively exaggerated and in both cost and effectiveness compared to ota
Freaker and Zipper are t1, and flea is t2 (awesome swarm unit)
AA bots target ground, they function much like samson/slasher (flak also targets ground, high ROF and good AOE make them great anti swarm)
Leveller is a t2 flame tank
Warrior is t2, and an excellent skirmisher/raider
Both F.A.R.K. and Necro can resurrect, have extremely powerful nanolathes, and a limited build menu (Necro has access to greatly superior defences than F.A.R.K.)
Spiders fire a constant beam, as opposed to a single shot, making them much more viable, although they require a fair amount of micro to be effective
Penetrator fires a constant beam (think ota one fired like a sniper, just with a really shitty aim speed)
Antinuke is cloakable
LLTs are a lot more expensive than in b/ca and dont really stand up to a t1 force of anything other than a few peewee/ak at all, they are point defense and nothing more.
Moho mines cost 300e/tick to run
Core get access to the minifusion with t2 builders, whereas Arm get the mobile fusion from the t2 vehicle lab. This is the crux of the faction differention, and marks quite a departure from ota tbh. In order of total energy produced (and cost): mini/mobile fus --> Cloakable fus --> Full fus
Core has a vastly superior economy, as they get necros and minifusion from 1 lab, and also have better defensive structures, the annihilator aside. Arm are far more mobile than core, and have much better raiding units than core does (fleas, warriors and panthers). Arm t2 kbots are extremely powerful and versatile, but it is difficult to maintain an adequate energy output to power the mohos necessary to build them without access to mobile fusions; you are forced to invest a lump sum into a cloakable or full fusion, or mass vunerable t1 economy. Your ability to grow exponentially is drastically impaired by going t2 Arm bots, you really need to push for a quick kill if you decide to do this.
Hrm this post is getting way longer than I intended, suffice to say XTA places more emphasis on intelligent choice and use of units than on scrabbling to outproduce your opponent and smash into his llts with a horde of t1 units. The reason i would suggest it is closer to OTA than other derivative mods is that it doesnt include a host of uberhack units and structures: arm have no t3, there are no shield generators, commandos, nuke bombers etc, and this coupled with the lack of a multitude of armour classes gives a far greater degree of "what you see is what you get" in your units.
Sry for long post