Is there a way to make wind power plants generate more power at higher elevations? (becasue wind speed is normally higher on the tops of hills)
I was thinking of some kind of multiplier applied to the global wind based on the elevation map.
I just thought it would add an extra little element of strategy.
Sorry for posting so many little questions :)
Thanks in advance.
PS Poll for public opinion
Wind Power based on elevation?
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I think OTA did it only by the map (so high maps had a global high power).
Costal is a good point, but I think it would be much harder to implement. I think elevation would be the easiest becasue the engine already knows that data.
If anyone knows how to set this up GREAT, just post it when you're done :)
Costal is a good point, but I think it would be much harder to implement. I think elevation would be the easiest becasue the engine already knows that data.
If anyone knows how to set this up GREAT, just post it when you're done :)
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Doomweaver
- Posts: 704
- Joined: 30 Oct 2004, 14:14
I don't think solar collectors should generate less power in shadows, because time doesn't pass, therefore shadows would offset the balance of maps in one direction. For example, in map4, the ridge would cast a shadow in one direction, and the player on that side would be at a disadvantage.
As for wind, for it to be semi-realistic we would have to model it properly. So in map4, imagine it is coming from the south. The wind would be strong south of the ridge, strongest above the ridge, and weak north of it. Again, this would unbalance the game, even if it were possible.
What I was thinking is that if wind is modelled simply, and other environmental effects, the gameplay change could be really cool. Later, when more systems support shadows, we could also bring this into the game, but for now, stick with wind.
Here's how it might work. First of all, maps need to be slightly bigger, and players need to start further from the edge of the map. Now, in memory we need to create a very simplified version of the heightmap. Over the course of about a second, this needs to be used, in conjunction with Wind Direction and Wind Speed, to produce a windmap. Again, this does not need to be detailed - 1/2 the detail of the metal map for both the horizontal components would be fine.
Now, we need some way that mapmakers can define the weather patterns in the .smd file. For example, they need to be able to define the:
average wind speed, how much it fluctuates, how often it fluctuates,
median wind direction, the speed and the amount that it fluctuates around this,
Average rainfall between storms
Average foging amount between storms - this has already been implemented, but it should fluctuate slightly and slowly, and affect LOS slightly.
Average length of each storm
Average strength of each storm - how much it increase wind speed
Average rainfall during each storm - a 0 if it's just a wind storm
Average foging during storms - this would usually be higher during storms, reflecting the fact that rain and snow obscures vision and lowers the production by solar collectors.
What the rainfall actually looks like - i.e. snow, rain, meteors
the speed the particles fall.
the amount they are affected by the wind. - snow would be more effected
how randomized their falling is - snow flutters, whereas rain and metoers just plumet to the ground.
Now what I was thinking is that these conditions, whether fine or stormy, are long term things - they come every twenty miniutues or so, for ten or so minutes. The idea is that this is enough time so that the strategical advantages offered can be exploited - storms mean that you wan't to build wind generators, and use short ranged units whose projectiles aren't effect much by wind. They also provide LOS cover, so radars become more important.
As for wind, for it to be semi-realistic we would have to model it properly. So in map4, imagine it is coming from the south. The wind would be strong south of the ridge, strongest above the ridge, and weak north of it. Again, this would unbalance the game, even if it were possible.
What I was thinking is that if wind is modelled simply, and other environmental effects, the gameplay change could be really cool. Later, when more systems support shadows, we could also bring this into the game, but for now, stick with wind.
Here's how it might work. First of all, maps need to be slightly bigger, and players need to start further from the edge of the map. Now, in memory we need to create a very simplified version of the heightmap. Over the course of about a second, this needs to be used, in conjunction with Wind Direction and Wind Speed, to produce a windmap. Again, this does not need to be detailed - 1/2 the detail of the metal map for both the horizontal components would be fine.
Now, we need some way that mapmakers can define the weather patterns in the .smd file. For example, they need to be able to define the:
average wind speed, how much it fluctuates, how often it fluctuates,
median wind direction, the speed and the amount that it fluctuates around this,
Average rainfall between storms
Average foging amount between storms - this has already been implemented, but it should fluctuate slightly and slowly, and affect LOS slightly.
Average length of each storm
Average strength of each storm - how much it increase wind speed
Average rainfall during each storm - a 0 if it's just a wind storm
Average foging during storms - this would usually be higher during storms, reflecting the fact that rain and snow obscures vision and lowers the production by solar collectors.
What the rainfall actually looks like - i.e. snow, rain, meteors
the speed the particles fall.
the amount they are affected by the wind. - snow would be more effected
how randomized their falling is - snow flutters, whereas rain and metoers just plumet to the ground.
Now what I was thinking is that these conditions, whether fine or stormy, are long term things - they come every twenty miniutues or so, for ten or so minutes. The idea is that this is enough time so that the strategical advantages offered can be exploited - storms mean that you wan't to build wind generators, and use short ranged units whose projectiles aren't effect much by wind. They also provide LOS cover, so radars become more important.
There's a problem with Doomweaver's suggestion: if we add into the game a randomly occuring weathereffect, we introduce an element of chance. This might be fine and dandy for some people, but I wouldn't want to lose just because my Goliaths happened to get caught in a storm and got obliterated by lasers.
If we are thinking of dynamic weather, we should think of have a sun that moves. Maybe just horizontally not vertically, well not untill we have the means to fight in the dark. Which would need player built lighting, floodlights, search lights, flares etc.Doomweaver wrote:I don't think solar collectors should generate less power in shadows, because time doesn't pass, therefore shadows would offset the balance of maps in one direction. For example, in map4, the ridge would cast a shadow in one direction, and the player on that side would be at a disadvantage.
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Doomweaver
- Posts: 704
- Joined: 30 Oct 2004, 14:14
How about you click on a radar, and it shows a graph of estimated wind speed over the next 30 minutes? The further into the future, the more chance is involved. Which makes me realise - we can have all the wind precalculated. If we only have a new amount of wind recorded for one minute intervals, then we can simply smooth between them. (I imagine a storm will take about three minutes to brew, and then about thre minutes to subside) To give an example of memory usage, let's take a map with a heightmap 512x512. If the wind were calculated at 128x128 pixels, and each with only 8-bits, then for a 1 hour game, we have 60x128x128 = 983040 bytes, = 0.983 mb. That's nothing! And it shouldn't take too long to calculate either, because it is done at such low resolution.
My thinking is that after 1 hour, the weather patterns can just repeat. (Maybe two hours, but I don't think it should really matter.) Infact, now that I think about it, the map maker should input a random seed into the .smd file. Every computer uses that to precalculate the wind, which not only means that every computer is synced without any data being transfered, but the weather for the map is the same every time you play it. That's how the radars predict windspeeds in the future - it's already recorded, so no calculations are required.
Not sure if it should only be precalculated for an hour or more. For the sake of conversation, let's assume the map is F*cking huge. 2048x2048, that means that the windmap should be 512x512.
For one hour: 512x512x60 = 15728640 bytes = 15.73 mb
For two hours: 31 mb
So maybe it should be calculated for two hours - makes the game more diverse, and makes it so that in long games, you can anticipate weather you have never experienced before. I dunno.
My thinking is that after 1 hour, the weather patterns can just repeat. (Maybe two hours, but I don't think it should really matter.) Infact, now that I think about it, the map maker should input a random seed into the .smd file. Every computer uses that to precalculate the wind, which not only means that every computer is synced without any data being transfered, but the weather for the map is the same every time you play it. That's how the radars predict windspeeds in the future - it's already recorded, so no calculations are required.
Not sure if it should only be precalculated for an hour or more. For the sake of conversation, let's assume the map is F*cking huge. 2048x2048, that means that the windmap should be 512x512.
For one hour: 512x512x60 = 15728640 bytes = 15.73 mb
For two hours: 31 mb
So maybe it should be calculated for two hours - makes the game more diverse, and makes it so that in long games, you can anticipate weather you have never experienced before. I dunno.
Duh. I wanna play "Total Annihilation", not "Weather Forecast".
Having to consult the meteo station before planting windgens sound waaayyy too far fetched for me.
I believe weather effect should be mainly for eyecandy. And so far in nearly all game weather effect kills my framerate horribly, so I would not mind not any weather effects at all.
There's also another problem. With wind not varying depending on location on the map and a bit better than solar, already many people use solar anyway because they don't know what the wind is, or don't like ressource income to change due to random events. If winds now vary from place to place, no one is gonna try to find good windy place and guess about the weather in the midst of the carnage.
And seeing how in real life weather forecast can exhaust even the best super-computer, I dare not to think what it will do on a regular home PC that is supposed to run a game of Spring as well.
So can we drop the idea?
Having to consult the meteo station before planting windgens sound waaayyy too far fetched for me.
I believe weather effect should be mainly for eyecandy. And so far in nearly all game weather effect kills my framerate horribly, so I would not mind not any weather effects at all.
There's also another problem. With wind not varying depending on location on the map and a bit better than solar, already many people use solar anyway because they don't know what the wind is, or don't like ressource income to change due to random events. If winds now vary from place to place, no one is gonna try to find good windy place and guess about the weather in the midst of the carnage.
And seeing how in real life weather forecast can exhaust even the best super-computer, I dare not to think what it will do on a regular home PC that is supposed to run a game of Spring as well.
So can we drop the idea?
The Doomweaver idea is a way too difficult ihmo.
But the first one, where winds increase with height is not so bad.
It's easy to know where are good places, it can add important points on the map. And heigh point are often use to install some static defences, so, it can be dangerous point to install winds there (and they take a lot of places)...
And you don't have to consult anything : the heigher you are, the most you produce. (of course, in a slighty way).
So perhaps don't drop now this idea :)
But the first one, where winds increase with height is not so bad.
It's easy to know where are good places, it can add important points on the map. And heigh point are often use to install some static defences, so, it can be dangerous point to install winds there (and they take a lot of places)...
And you don't have to consult anything : the heigher you are, the most you produce. (of course, in a slighty way).
So perhaps don't drop now this idea :)
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Doomweaver
- Posts: 704
- Joined: 30 Oct 2004, 14:14
Just want to point out that while that may be fine and dandy sounding (as it gives map makers more controle) itwould be a pain. Becasue insted of having and area called sand, youd have to duplicate it every time you wanted to mess with the waether in a patch. So ud have sand 1(normal weather) sand 2 (more wind) sand 3 (less wind), multiply that by the amount of diffgerent terains youd have and you could end up using 50 - 60 different types of terrain, which would take years to map out.Gnome wrote:Maybe it'd be better to just integrate this into the new TypeMap spring now supports... just give the mapper the ability to assign different wind/tidal values for different terrain types on the map.
And thats all im saying on that point...
(The only sensible way would be to put that info in another chanel, and have seperat weather type tags... that might work, but still be a pain)
Changing with height is the way to go in my opinion.
aGorm