Promoting Spring to the outside world
Moderator: Moderators
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HeavyLancer
- Posts: 421
- Joined: 19 May 2007, 09:28
I'm sort of working on this with my package installers. however, it's currently on hold until Thursday, after my exams have finished. That will solve some of the problems with that.TheRegisteredOne wrote:I have solution for all ye problems! Make a worth while singleplayer!
1. new players can learn the basics before going into multiplayer
2. people can play mods without looking for mod games to be hosted
3. majority of casual gamers dont play multiplayer at all. With single player, they can enjoy spring without going online
4. many people enjoy good stories in their games, singleplayer campaign!
5. singleplayer tutorial can be very helpful to those who are completely alien to TA gameplay.
This is so obviously I can't believe none of you saw this.
other suggestions include:
1. make it easier to install. Have a default set of maps and mods
2. Automatic updates or update notices
3. Better content (mods, maps) in general
Ideally over the Christmas break I will make a package installer creation program to allow others to make packages quickly.
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BlackLiger
- Posts: 1371
- Joined: 05 Oct 2004, 21:58
And how much would it take to code something like Kernel Panic's single player, with a tag added that you must complete a level to unlock the next?smoth wrote:single player campaign cannot be done yet. We have no way to handle progression through a campaign. We can only do single nebulous missions.
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Pressure Line
- Posts: 2283
- Joined: 21 May 2007, 02:09
you could do a really hax way... put the map files into passworded rar files. at the successful completeion of each mission, you get the password to unpack the next level.smoth wrote:single player campaign cannot be done yet. We have no way to handle progression through a campaign. We can only do single nebulous missions.
really really hacky, and probably too complicated for a lot of people (thats the reason games like Colin McRae Rally has a note reminding you to not remove the memory card or turn off your playstation while its saving)
This is completely wrong. I started playing Spring around the time we first broke 100 players in the lobby and AA and XTA were about half and half. There were no other mods. All the pros had played XTA for a while and had some problems with it and when AA came along they decided to play that instead. I don't know what you mean by "general consensus was that AA was an inferior product".AF wrote:If a really good popular mod manages to become so popular it takes up 90% of the battles that's fine. But BA didn't get there from scratch it got there because it was AA with fixes.
Maybe it changed since then but that's how it got hold of its status. It inherited it from AA, and AA got it because back when there were 3 or 4 battles per day in very early spring history, caydr and some AA fans came along and started hosting battles, and because the lobby was so small they easily dominated, even though general consensus was that AA was an inferior product. If it weren't for spring, AA would be a lot less popular than it is today
Also I'm sure everybody would love a singleplayer campaign but there is nobody with the free time and motivation to do it.
Well, I used to check these forums regularly hoping for a working mac version, but now I check them maybe once every two weeks. I think the greatest obstacle to community growth is poor multiplatform support. I also think that Forged Alliance and Supcom have led to a decline in the Spring Community.
Linux works. Most commercial games only work in Windows and a lot of open source games don't work on Mac. I don't think that's the greatest obstacle.Moop wrote:Well, I used to check these forums regularly hoping for a working mac version, but now I check them maybe once every two weeks. I think the greatest obstacle to community growth is poor multiplatform support. I also think that Forged Alliance and Supcom have led to a decline in the Spring Community.
Wow is sucha no-brainer lol. All you need is a bunch of time and no life. There is certain amount of skill required but it doesn't seem very hard when every 13y old kid can do it. I asked my friend about it and he told me that you're mainly hitting few buttons all the time and that's it -.-oh im sorry, how many people are playing WoW this very second?
How many hours, days, months and years of playtime in TOTAL have been put into WoW since the beginning
wow and a few million gamers just owned you and your arguments sir.
Can't you see how much harder this game is. How much harder it is compared to new CnC and such...
Wisse wrote:Wow is sucha no-brainer lol. All you need is a bunch of time and no life. There is certain amount of skill required but it doesn't seem very hard when every 13y old kid can do it. I asked my friend about it and he told me that you're mainly hitting few buttons all the time and that's it -.-oh im sorry, how many people are playing WoW this very second?
How many hours, days, months and years of playtime in TOTAL have been put into WoW since the beginning
wow and a few million gamers just owned you and your arguments sir.
Can't you see how much harder this game is. How much harder it is compared to new CnC and such...
The point was not for you to cry that 13 y o kids can play it.
but rather that people like to become involved in the game. contrary to AF's beliefs, people DO want to work when theyre playing. mining & doing some metalsmithing job in runescape? doing the same in wow? or any other MMO you can think, there are players doing "work".
becoming the highest pvp ranking player in wow aint that easy so that you can just play for 5 mins and then hack some buttons like you seem to think.
It requires weeks(months?) of nonstop work. And yet people are doing it.
Exactly, this is how underplayed mods can build a playerbase most effectively. Then a selection of those single player people will want to play the mod online, and a community of players would develop. I think making single player campaigns possible should be one of the devs highest priorities after .76 is released.TheRegisteredOne wrote:I have solution for all ye problems! Make a worth while singleplayer!
1. new players can learn the basics before going into multiplayer
2. people can play mods without looking for mod games to be hosted
3. majority of casual gamers dont play multiplayer at all. With single player, they can enjoy spring without going online
4. many people enjoy good stories in their games, singleplayer campaign!
5. singleplayer tutorial can be very helpful to those who are completely alien to TA gameplay.
This is so obviously I can't believe none of you saw this.
EE didnt get pulled.. WTF are you people on about.. I DID NOT RAGEQUIT SPRING.. I DID NOT DELETE EE.. or do anything remotely so radical.. I HAD TO LEAVE FOR REAL LIFE RELATED ISSUES.. REAL LIFE MEDICAL ISSUES.. GOD DAMN IT...
EE is, was and has been available on Unknown files.. it was when I "pulled it"
and was while I was gone, and there still is a version of it there..
The reason its not the latest version is because EE is currently going through a further development stage and I dont want to force a beta version with imbalances on the general public.. That and IM almost 100% certain if I started a new thread here about EE, Id likely get harassed and attacked for some reason that I cannot really fathom..
FINALLY.. I AM NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT ANYONE PLAYING BA OR AA, OR CA OR WHAT HAVE YOU.. I NEVER HAVE.. I dare anyone to find consistant examples of me complaining about people playing TA based mods.. I also dare someone to find consistant examples of me getting upset because NO one plays my mod.. I really dont recall any of these.. I have gotten upset because people have downright INSULTED my mod, and lets face it when you make something your going to be irritated when people call it crap out of hand.
STOP LUMPING ALL THE DAMN MOD MAKERS INTO SOME SORT OF OVERARCHING BORG COLLECTIVE INTENT ON SQUASHING ALL TA GAMES.. its bullshit and Im tired of being generalized.. I DONT CARE.. I do not care what you play, I do not care if you play EE, I do not care if you play BA, I do not care if you play CA.. I do not CARE.. It doesnt bother me for you to NOT play EE.. I do not come on here hoping people are playing my mod.. 90% of the time if people are playing my mod its a SURPRISE to me.. like finding a dollar bill.. What gets me is when people WHO have NOT played EE insult it or deride it for little to no reason other than to try and set me off. WHY this is neccessary I just DONT know.
You want to know why I think spring has a lackluster community.. LACK OF BOT SUPPORT... guess what PRO gamerz usually comprise a small part of the community, because most people arent that competitive. And non competitive people like to play in an enviroment where they can be less competitive and still have fun, this means singleplayer, and additionally Comp Stomps.. When you play with a bunch of other dudes against the computer no one has to worry about l33t micro or any of that crap, and it can all be about the fun and the crazy stuff you can pull off. Its just more relaxed... No one gets called a nub.. or worries that their l33t haxorz arent enough. But spring hasnt done very well in the AI department for quite some time...
EE is, was and has been available on Unknown files.. it was when I "pulled it"
and was while I was gone, and there still is a version of it there..The reason its not the latest version is because EE is currently going through a further development stage and I dont want to force a beta version with imbalances on the general public.. That and IM almost 100% certain if I started a new thread here about EE, Id likely get harassed and attacked for some reason that I cannot really fathom..
FINALLY.. I AM NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT ANYONE PLAYING BA OR AA, OR CA OR WHAT HAVE YOU.. I NEVER HAVE.. I dare anyone to find consistant examples of me complaining about people playing TA based mods.. I also dare someone to find consistant examples of me getting upset because NO one plays my mod.. I really dont recall any of these.. I have gotten upset because people have downright INSULTED my mod, and lets face it when you make something your going to be irritated when people call it crap out of hand.
STOP LUMPING ALL THE DAMN MOD MAKERS INTO SOME SORT OF OVERARCHING BORG COLLECTIVE INTENT ON SQUASHING ALL TA GAMES.. its bullshit and Im tired of being generalized.. I DONT CARE.. I do not care what you play, I do not care if you play EE, I do not care if you play BA, I do not care if you play CA.. I do not CARE.. It doesnt bother me for you to NOT play EE.. I do not come on here hoping people are playing my mod.. 90% of the time if people are playing my mod its a SURPRISE to me.. like finding a dollar bill.. What gets me is when people WHO have NOT played EE insult it or deride it for little to no reason other than to try and set me off. WHY this is neccessary I just DONT know.
You want to know why I think spring has a lackluster community.. LACK OF BOT SUPPORT... guess what PRO gamerz usually comprise a small part of the community, because most people arent that competitive. And non competitive people like to play in an enviroment where they can be less competitive and still have fun, this means singleplayer, and additionally Comp Stomps.. When you play with a bunch of other dudes against the computer no one has to worry about l33t micro or any of that crap, and it can all be about the fun and the crazy stuff you can pull off. Its just more relaxed... No one gets called a nub.. or worries that their l33t haxorz arent enough. But spring hasnt done very well in the AI department for quite some time...
tombom, if you look at the big picture, and I'm sure me being there when you werent there to see it unfold for myself helps, you'll see that before spring was released AA was dwindling.
AAs popularity was being marginalized by what were considered superior mods, mods which pushed AA almost entirely out fo the OTA spectrum.
These modders had no interest in spring however, and didnt take spring as seriously as they should have. Examples include devolution, TAWP. Remember AA is just a ragtag collection of 3rd party units bundled together and rebalanced with the odd fix.
The makers fo the better OTA mods as I said had little interest in spring. Caydr IIRC didn't either, but his fan base did. Loyal AA fans ported AA to spring within a week of its release and started playing it. XTA too was not considered a major mod in OTA, however the lobby needed critical mass to be sustainable and that was provided by OTA AA players, which naturally lead to the better games being AA games because AA players knew the mechanics whereas XTA had to be learnt from scratch by most.
So using this setup AA marginalised XTA to a 20-30% share.
You didnt see it happen tombom. You didn't read all the AA threads in the first place. You didnt spend years in the OTA community. Infact did you play OTA regularly with the people who ported AA to spring? I still get invited into msn convos with former AA players from OTA.
Anyways, devolution and TAWP couldn't crack spring no matter how good they are, because AA and its successors dominate by sheer numbers. XTA exists purely because its in the installer, if the installer dropped it XTA would die very quickly.
btw registered one
If only it were so simple, there's no compaigns, just missions and there's a big gaping whole in the AI section.
A lot of modders here, not all, prioritize multiplayer exclusively. According to modders AI developers are supposed to support mods, rather than develop their AIs. They fight back with 'but you haven't told us how', which really means 'we know you posted up all that stuff and spent ages making easy point and click tools but we cba even looking' followed by a general 'I cba with it, you want my mod in your AI? You fix it yourself'.
And those modders who do bother are somewhat foo barred by primary mod syndrome anyway, especialyl when a TA modder or supporter tramples all over their requests as unnecessary because their mod doesn't need it.
AAs popularity was being marginalized by what were considered superior mods, mods which pushed AA almost entirely out fo the OTA spectrum.
These modders had no interest in spring however, and didnt take spring as seriously as they should have. Examples include devolution, TAWP. Remember AA is just a ragtag collection of 3rd party units bundled together and rebalanced with the odd fix.
The makers fo the better OTA mods as I said had little interest in spring. Caydr IIRC didn't either, but his fan base did. Loyal AA fans ported AA to spring within a week of its release and started playing it. XTA too was not considered a major mod in OTA, however the lobby needed critical mass to be sustainable and that was provided by OTA AA players, which naturally lead to the better games being AA games because AA players knew the mechanics whereas XTA had to be learnt from scratch by most.
So using this setup AA marginalised XTA to a 20-30% share.
You didnt see it happen tombom. You didn't read all the AA threads in the first place. You didnt spend years in the OTA community. Infact did you play OTA regularly with the people who ported AA to spring? I still get invited into msn convos with former AA players from OTA.
Anyways, devolution and TAWP couldn't crack spring no matter how good they are, because AA and its successors dominate by sheer numbers. XTA exists purely because its in the installer, if the installer dropped it XTA would die very quickly.
btw registered one
If only it were so simple, there's no compaigns, just missions and there's a big gaping whole in the AI section.
A lot of modders here, not all, prioritize multiplayer exclusively. According to modders AI developers are supposed to support mods, rather than develop their AIs. They fight back with 'but you haven't told us how', which really means 'we know you posted up all that stuff and spent ages making easy point and click tools but we cba even looking' followed by a general 'I cba with it, you want my mod in your AI? You fix it yourself'.
And those modders who do bother are somewhat foo barred by primary mod syndrome anyway, especialyl when a TA modder or supporter tramples all over their requests as unnecessary because their mod doesn't need it.
I really didnt intend to antagonize anybody, and in case i didn't make it clear: EE is ownage, give me NI!
I wasn't generalising about content creators in my derision of people complaining about so called fringe mods not being played, i was referring to a general feeling i have picked up over months of lurking this forum, not really directed at any specific party, more the intellectual climate.
You had you location line telling us all to delete EE, saw nothing of it for months. Can you blame me for thinking you had terminated developement? Sorry if i gave people the wrong impression, and sorry if i offended you Fanger.
I wasn't generalising about content creators in my derision of people complaining about so called fringe mods not being played, i was referring to a general feeling i have picked up over months of lurking this forum, not really directed at any specific party, more the intellectual climate.
You had you location line telling us all to delete EE, saw nothing of it for months. Can you blame me for thinking you had terminated developement? Sorry if i gave people the wrong impression, and sorry if i offended you Fanger.
Fang...
While I realize you never "pulled" EE, you have to admit that the impression you gave was "Screw you guys, I'm taking my ball and going home". IIRC, even your user-note was "uninstall your EE". Which one can't really blame you for - you modders absorb a lot of abuse in these forums, especially considering that you're working on a labour of love.
People who weren't close enough to you to know you were planning on continuing work on EE really did get the impression that you'd abandoned the project, and didn't want anyone to play it anymore. When that happened, I was shocked - I damn-near gave up on Spring altogether, since EE is by far my favourite mod.
People who weren't close enough to you to know you were planning on continuing work on EE really did get the impression that you'd abandoned the project, and didn't want anyone to play it anymore. When that happened, I was shocked - I damn-near gave up on Spring altogether, since EE is by far my favourite mod.
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Felix the Cat
- Posts: 2383
- Joined: 15 Jun 2005, 17:30
I agree with the importance of single player campaign. Also, there is some untapped horsepower there if you guys can make it so that it's driven by script/data description file. That way, we have creative people making campaigns for it without having to do much chore work.
My main point is if you guys decide to make campaigns for single player, make it very easy for designers to make campaigns, using a powerful editor of some sort. If you make it fun to make campaigns, in the end you could actually choose from the best and make an excellent starter package.
I would like to discuss this idea more.
My main point is if you guys decide to make campaigns for single player, make it very easy for designers to make campaigns, using a powerful editor of some sort. If you make it fun to make campaigns, in the end you could actually choose from the best and make an excellent starter package.
I would like to discuss this idea more.
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MightySheep
- Posts: 243
- Joined: 11 Nov 2007, 02:17
I introduced two of my friends to spring. They were too intimidated to play online, and practiced for many hours in single player.
If you guys wanna reach the non ota players, single player is probably your best bet. They got pretty good on single player, too. I mean a couple hours is all they needed.
Also, these types of people like to play single player shooters & the occasional MMORG games as well. Make good campaigns, and I think we'd be on to something.
If you guys wanna reach the non ota players, single player is probably your best bet. They got pretty good on single player, too. I mean a couple hours is all they needed.
Also, these types of people like to play single player shooters & the occasional MMORG games as well. Make good campaigns, and I think we'd be on to something.
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MightySheep
- Posts: 243
- Joined: 11 Nov 2007, 02:17