scratch.. clearly you havent lurked enough to have any inkling of wth your talking about..
Sleksa, unless the person you are talking to is lets see 12-14, there is NO way in hell you could have been nano shielding when they were sucking on any mammories.. because TA is only 10 years old.. so basicaly
LEARN2TROLL doofus..
TA Derivative Balancing Theory Discussion
Moderator: Moderators
Well when Betalord posted the top 100 ingames a little while ago some of the good players were near the top, but so were some star nubs.Scratch wrote: This is a piss ass attitude. I'd like you to post how many hours ingame you actually have, and which mod. Then you can talk about what the hours do for you. All the players I know with 650+ hours are actually pretty good. At this point, a player has usually played more than speedmetal also.
Check how many hours the guys have that are balancing this stuff out. I'd bet they have WELL over 1000 hours ingame. I know the more well known players do.
I wasn't ever really good at OTA, but I definetly learned how to manage my units through it. That means all I had to do coming into spring is learn about the units of AA/BA/XTA. Most of the noobs coming into spring can't manage their stuff anywhere close to where I could from OTA.
This brings me to another sad point - the noobs coming in here don't seem to be lasting long. A decision must be made as to whether or not to balance BA (and with a successful BA comes an influx of players into the other smaller mods) towards the vets or the noobs. If the guys in charge try to compromise it, we're fucked.
The lobby needs redoing. If we want to be taken seriously by the public, it needs to look more like the Zone. Or something, done by a good gfx artist. Also the ingame menus need redoing as well. GL finding a good enough person to pull it off though.
I can see the loss of interest by the devs in the updates we've seen lately. The Spring site as well seems more like a dev site for a coding project than a game the public is supposed to want to play.
Heres the thing with spring - we have a well done engine, lets be honest, it runs pretty good and the effects are good too. The polish surrounding it isn't there. The menus look like a nub made them up, the lobby like it was done in VB in a couple of days. It just looks amateurish.
I could help but obviously these gfx are a huge time commitment and the people that are good at it get paid to do it.
I can see the loss of interest by the devs in the updates we've seen lately. The Spring site as well seems more like a dev site for a coding project than a game the public is supposed to want to play.
Heres the thing with spring - we have a well done engine, lets be honest, it runs pretty good and the effects are good too. The polish surrounding it isn't there. The menus look like a nub made them up, the lobby like it was done in VB in a couple of days. It just looks amateurish.
I could help but obviously these gfx are a huge time commitment and the people that are good at it get paid to do it.
Good - I just hope they are quality devs. You can call me anal but I am genuinely concerned about the impression Spring leaves on new players.
See as it stands Joe Blow has played Star Craft & C&C, probably some other more recent PC games. He downloads spring and notices the gfx seem a little basic, or something about them seems kinda dumb. So his expectations are automatically lowered. Cases in point:
BA load screens .... wtf?
Spring lobby... pasty windows buttons? Basic VB, guys!
Ingame menus? patchy Lua, sketchy interface?
The work done so far is very commendable. My belief is Spring lacks the polished look it needs in order to compare, as it righteously should, with any other RTS on the market today.
Also, about ingame hours. You guys must think I'm saying 'if you have xxx hours, you will pwn at spring.' or 'if you only have xx amount of hours, your guaranteed to lose and suck at spring.' never did I say that.
I'm saying with the hours come experience, and with that reliability, I can say to my ally at 13 min: 'Put up AA' ...
noob: 'wut? AA? I did!' (and has a couple of defenders up, or needs to have the whole process of building AA explained.... which takes valuable ingame time)
vet(hundreds of hours): 'Ok, did they make brawlers, or bombers?'
me: 'bombers'
*since vet has been bombed before, he has seen how his allies survived and copies the strat. He builds at least some tech 2 AA. Seriously, how retarded do you have to be after that many hours.
Maybe this isn't being explained properly. My point is when choosing allys you can't really go wrong with long game time hours with the exception of speedmetal vets.
See as it stands Joe Blow has played Star Craft & C&C, probably some other more recent PC games. He downloads spring and notices the gfx seem a little basic, or something about them seems kinda dumb. So his expectations are automatically lowered. Cases in point:
BA load screens .... wtf?
Spring lobby... pasty windows buttons? Basic VB, guys!
Ingame menus? patchy Lua, sketchy interface?
The work done so far is very commendable. My belief is Spring lacks the polished look it needs in order to compare, as it righteously should, with any other RTS on the market today.
Also, about ingame hours. You guys must think I'm saying 'if you have xxx hours, you will pwn at spring.' or 'if you only have xx amount of hours, your guaranteed to lose and suck at spring.' never did I say that.
I'm saying with the hours come experience, and with that reliability, I can say to my ally at 13 min: 'Put up AA' ...
noob: 'wut? AA? I did!' (and has a couple of defenders up, or needs to have the whole process of building AA explained.... which takes valuable ingame time)
vet(hundreds of hours): 'Ok, did they make brawlers, or bombers?'
me: 'bombers'
*since vet has been bombed before, he has seen how his allies survived and copies the strat. He builds at least some tech 2 AA. Seriously, how retarded do you have to be after that many hours.
Maybe this isn't being explained properly. My point is when choosing allys you can't really go wrong with long game time hours with the exception of speedmetal vets.
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Pressure Line
- Posts: 2283
- Joined: 21 May 2007, 02:09
http://spring.clan-sy.com/wiki/Image:Ta ... ansjk9.jpgScratch wrote:stuff about vets
ive seen it happen more or less like that.
That...is amazing.Pressure Line wrote:http://spring.clan-sy.com/wiki/Image:Ta ... ansjk9.jpg
1. You question whether we should balance towards nubs or masters yet you argue only the best players should do the balancing. how do you expect the best players to know what nubs need to get into the game?
2. You complain about graphics in the mod that's made by the team fitting your standards the most. It's not going to be prettier because it's made by long term playerrs who are used to Spring being ugly and think it's a waste of time to change that.
2. You complain about graphics in the mod that's made by the team fitting your standards the most. It's not going to be prettier because it's made by long term playerrs who are used to Spring being ugly and think it's a waste of time to change that.
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clumsy_culhane
- Posts: 370
- Joined: 30 Jul 2007, 10:27
agreed. if u want a pretty mod go and play CA or whateva.. not saying they are just good for the fx (i love CA for other things as well) but BA will not change its models etc because its just a balancing of TA, not a remake..KDR_11k wrote:1. You question whether we should balance towards nubs or masters yet you argue only the best players should do the balancing. how do you expect the best players to know what nubs need to get into the game?
2. You complain about graphics in the mod that's made by the team fitting your standards the most. It's not going to be prettier because it's made by long term playerrs who are used to Spring being ugly and think it's a waste of time to change that.
It's a figure of speech. People exaggerate on the internet.Fanger wrote:Sleksa, unless the person you are talking to is lets see 12-14, there is NO way in hell you could have been nano shielding when they were sucking on any mammories.. because TA is only 10 years old.. so basicaly
LEARN2TROLL doofus..
BTW calling somebody a doofus is against the forum rules!!
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[Krogoth86]
- Posts: 1176
- Joined: 23 Aug 2007, 19:46
Yeah well ok I still don't understand why to show things like the vulcan in close-ups. It's not so much about the bad geometry but more about the BRICK TEXTURES on it. C'mon imagine you are new to the game and get your face smacked at the fact that the most powerful long range gun is made of mere BRICKS! Also not mentioning the Comet Catcher (?) screen where two LLTs are put right beneath each other so one blows the other one up when the first dies...Scratch wrote:BA load screens .... wtf?
The rest is ok though imo...
Well to say the truth when I opened it for the first time I was impressed becauseScratch wrote:Spring lobby... pasty windows buttons? Basic VB, guys!
a)
Most freeware thingies are just shitty and randomly put together.
b)
The Lobby imo is better than even some of AAA games. I'm especially looking at the awful Ingame Lobby of Battlefield 2 or the even worse "Wow - look at my ActiveX inside IE" Supreme Commander Lobby with the speed of a snail and confusing interface with buttons popping up everywhere and tons of menus for boring things...
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
I think scratch is really on to somthing here... but I'm not going to bother making a long arguement sticking up for him since everyone else on here is agaisnt him >_>
1 point especially... we need a better looking lobby. TASclient looks like somthing out of pre-XP Windows, and AFLobby is ugly and dosnt work for a lot of people. Not neccesarily a new lobby, but the current one at least fixed up into somthing that makes newbs go "Wow, cool!" rather then the current "Am I in the wrong program or somthing? Is this supposed to be a game?"
Oh, and someone REALLY needs to stop taking Sleksa so seriously...
Wake up fang. No one gives a fuck what sleska thinks anyways.
1 point especially... we need a better looking lobby. TASclient looks like somthing out of pre-XP Windows, and AFLobby is ugly and dosnt work for a lot of people. Not neccesarily a new lobby, but the current one at least fixed up into somthing that makes newbs go "Wow, cool!" rather then the current "Am I in the wrong program or somthing? Is this supposed to be a game?"
Oh, and someone REALLY needs to stop taking Sleksa so seriously...
Wake up fang. No one gives a fuck what sleska thinks anyways.
don't be wussLOrDo wrote:I think scratch is really on to somthing here... but I'm not going to bother making a long arguement sticking up for him since everyone else on here is agaisnt him >_>
You know, TASClient has a ton of skins, how about you have a look at a few of those. What is important is that it works well.LOrDo wrote: 1 point especially... we need a better looking lobby. TASclient looks like somthing out of pre-XP Windows, and AFLobby is ugly and dosnt work for a lot of people. Not neccesarily a new lobby, but the current one at least fixed up into somthing that makes newbs go "Wow, cool!" rather then the current "Am I in the wrong program or somthing? Is this supposed to be a game?"
sleksa's mission on the forums is to poke fun at insecure people.LOrDo wrote: Oh, and someone REALLY needs to stop taking Sleksa so seriously...
Wake up fang. No one gives a fuck what sleska thinks anyways.
1 point especially... we need a better looking lobby. TASclient looks like somthing out of pre-XP Windows, and AFLobby is ugly and dosnt work for a lot of people. Not neccesarily a new lobby, but the current one at least fixed up into somthing that makes newbs go "Wow, cool!" rather then the current "Am I in the wrong program or somthing? Is this supposed to be a game?"
err....
First off despite what forb says, I think his screen shot is not a good example, because it uses the crappy default java looknfeel, and not the default native looknfeel which uses the proper windows/linux GUI controls without stupid ugly buttons. Tried beta 3.9.*? The default substance theme was changed to the a fancy black gray graphite scheme.
However there're also about twice as many skins as tasclient inside the substance library which aflobby uses. Each one can be mixed and matched to make hundreds of hybrid schemes, all with fancy fading and animation effects. We can at least agree that tasclient is not a work of art despite whatever skins it has.
As for lots of people not being able to get it to work I believe currently that bug has only been verified in 2 people, smoth and satirik. As a windows user I can verify that whatever I build runs on windows.
Secondly your post isn't productive. You have not made any suggestions on how to improve aflobby or even tasclient. I'm not sure your even using the correct terminology, last I saw spring lobby didn't have pasty buttons, it had bit colourful images, so you must be referring to tasclient using the wrong name.
"hey turn on my PC and click on the dock to start itunes, then , no not my PC, I said turn on my PC! What are you on about? Well yes if I really want to be pedantic I can call it an iMac, besides its a bit obvious when I say PC I mean the imac not the 5 PCs next to it, no that isnt a toaster its a PC, well they're all the same thing aren't they? Get out of my PC! Yes you could call it a house, but I like to call it a PC, you.. you... PC!!!"
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CarRepairer
- Cursed Zero-K Developer
- Posts: 3359
- Joined: 07 Nov 2007, 21:48
Still a vast improvement from the first two designs, made of straw and sticks.[Krogoth86] wrote:Yeah well ok I still don't understand why to show things like the vulcan in close-ups. It's not so much about the bad geometry but more about the BRICK TEXTURES on it. C'mon imagine you are new to the game and get your face smacked at the fact that the most powerful long range gun is made of mere BRICKS!Scratch wrote:BA load screens .... wtf?