Spring:1944 dev and testing

[FLOZi]

On a side note, this is in public beta stages, right?

If you make that more clear in the title and opening post, you'll probably get more testers, if you need them. Dunno, found it a bit confusing on that point.

The "always new files here" thing is hard to tell whether it's the newest newest file, or that alpha originally released.

Or i'm just being dumb.

Not really. The current release is from early this year, using old AATA content. We've been working on all new art and scripts and, well, basically making a whole new game since then. Including adding in the other two teams - UK and USSR. It's currently only available to selected testers via our SVN. We plan to make a release soon (of course, we planned to release shortly after Spring 0.75 was released but things kept getting pushed back).

@1v0ry: I agree, smg's should be cheaper, they are of limited utility already compared to riflemen.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

same buildtime as rifles imo

[Felix the Cat]

SMGs are really a niche infantry type (despite being 2nd in the build list and buildable from starting HQ). They are... well... close-combat infantry.

I've found that the best use for SMGs is in pure infantry battles. I use snipers or riflemen to kill the opponent's machine guns, bring in my own machine guns to suppress the enemy's riflemen, then send in the SMGs while the MGs/rifles are still firing at the enemy to kill the enemy quicker.

They're also very useful in constricted territory i.e. to hold the top of a medium-sized hill. Superior to riflemen and MGs in that regard.

[Neddie]

Felix, where the deuce have you been?

[Nemo]

Somewhere I have a replay of two SMGs (really just one, since one of them got stuck behind a fold of terrain) holding off a chokepoint against 15 or so US riflemen, killing most of them. They are way more lethal than rifles at close range (although the largish grenade range atm negates that somewhat - I may nerf that in the not too distant future).

That said, it also depends a lot on the map you're playing. On terra or other big wide open maps, SMGs are really of limited value on their own. When used as felix describes (to kill groups of pinned/suppressed troops in a hurry), they're very effective, but they can not be counted on to do damage like rifles can. That is, with riflemen you can basically assemble them somewhere and move them around without paying too too close attention, and they'll probably take a good bite out of enemy infantry. SMGs require rather more attention, and as such should indeed probably have their BT cut down a bit.

In conclusion, needs moar test games! Moaaaarrr! I want to release, damnit!

[1v0ry_k1ng]

MG42 targets flags (and so stops during patrol when encountering a flag and does nothing), havnt tested other MGs but may be the same.

[SpikedHelmet]

Hi guys

Sorry for my abrupt departure the other day during that game.

My stupid fucking kid spilled a glass of soda all over my modem and it died right then and there.

This is the first chance I've gotten to get to an internet cafe. I should be back up by Monday night because those dick technicians can't come before then.

Anyway, good testing, test more -- and Nemo, OBSERVATION NEED TO LOSE CLOAKING, THEY'RE TOO SUPERUNIT.

[Neddie]

Observation needs to cost more logistics when cloaked and moving. Problem solved.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

OBSERVATION NEED TO LOSE CLOAKING, THEY'RE TOO SUPERUNIT

no way its only cloaking that makes them useful, just up the E cost of them cloaking

edit: marder is overpriced, its just an AT gun on wheels and its not worth half the price of a real mans tank

[Nemo]

an AT gun on wheels that can instagib almost any other tank in the game. which is a lot more than most of the other tanks can say (firefly and panther fall into that category).

[RavingManiac]

Just wanted to know, are airfields still unbuildable on anything other than geothermal vents in the latest build? I'd rather the airfield and aircraft to simply be more expensive as a solution to air spamming.

[FLOZi]

Airfields aren't in the current build at all.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

i just watched a sherman fire its arcing shell over a hill four times its own height to hit a tank behind it where infantry had LOS. since when did shermans have this ability!



maybe slightly reduce the degree of arcing?

AT guns to lose cloak and lots of turnrate + movespeed plz

also, would it be possible to stop flags blocking bullets? haxx strats like putting a boy behind a flag where he can shoot out and cant be hit suck

also, MG bullet impacts look cool but currently all other bullets use adefault spring effect that looks awful, any chance of putting some kind of groundflash on bullet impacts so they are visible from zoomed out like the MG rounds are?

[1v0ry_k1ng]

new at guns etc feel right now, but imo 3500 metal for a towed gun is mad considering tanks start at 1500...

edit: make smgs build faster!

[tombom]

German Light Howzitsers, at least, target American flags, at least, but can't fire.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

I dont know if russians have been balanced yet but rifles and smgs NEED to cost more than 1 metal, atm i get get a four barrack spam of rifle and smgs, outproduce germany 3:1 and pay only about 5 metal a minute, meaning i fasteched to tanks and rolled right over anything. make them say 10-15M please but for the love of god END THIS MADNESS! also, i reached the unit limit in 10 minutes

also, partisans have been totally overnerfed, their buildtime needs decreasing before they will be any use even with two shacks, maybe to about 750000 (from 950000). also, any chance of giving commisars a pistol or somthing so they are less vunreble to a super early rush on smalle maps?

also, that loadscreen mentioning "guns are an effective counter to tank for a fraction of the price" is epic lies; buildcostmetal=3000 for a pak 40? I can get two t60s for that and almost a panzer iii! assuming they are nerfed, maybe making them cheap would be good because atm they are a total ripoff and no worth the micro needed to place them.

giving tanks higher LOS would help with the endgame as would making the german HQ less formidable, increasing the radius around tanks where supression is ignored and making smgs similar buildtimes to rifles (they are THE attacking unit).

[Nemo]

T-60s are NOT tanks. you can kill them with a PTRD or even a .50 cal heavy MG. a greyhound or 251 halftrack will slaughter them. Edit to remove silly comment about Pzr IIIs.

Pak40s are able to take out almost any tank in the game in one hit. 3k might be a bit high, but they certainly don't need a drastic reduction.

Yes, partisans were overnerfed. And yes, soviet inf are a bit crazy atm.

I think increasing the fear shield size is probably a good thing, as is dropping SMG buildtimes. Increasing tank LoS is something I'm wary of doing, since they shouldn't be able to just plow into a base on their own unless they have almost zero AT floating around or you just have massive massive armor superiority. I'm also cutting the logistics cost of bullets way down, since some of our issues in the past have been due to massive e-stall in the endgame (so you get things like tanks not firing AP rounds at other tanks, and thus hardly damaging them).

[1v0ry_k1ng]

dont cut it down
and t60s are tanks, they are just not capable vs other tanks
3k is too high

[FLOZi]

T-60s are NOT tanks. you can kill them with a PTRD or even a .50 cal heavy MG. a greyhound or 251 halftrack will slaughter them. Panzer III likewise just barely count as tanks (although you can't kill them with a .50 cal, a few greyhounds or daimlers would do it).

Panzer III has almost as much HP as Pzr IV. Its more capable in the 'light tank' role than Stuart , T-70 or, dare i suggest it (as it clearly isn't a tank and isn't in the same place as other light tanks but really is quite close to them in function), the AEC.

[Nemo]

one more time, T-60s aren't tanks they're called tankettes for a reason.

tanks can deal with other light vehs comfortably (with the exception of the marder/AEC). The T-60 can not.

Dropped AT gun cost to 2300 or so. May be too much of a dip, we'll see.

Don't cut logistics cost of bullets?! The issue is that right now the high BT of depots means that logistics production is not very well tied to map control, AND that eventually you're getting into logistics drains of 300+ range, which is massive. a lot of that is because every single bullet is 2 logistics. so a MG42 firing a burst is pulling 14 logistics each burst. that adds up fast when proper shells cost their caliber (75mm shell=75e to fire).


Edit: ok, sorry, I was wrong about the PzrIII I associate a low caliber gun with crappy armor, which is wrong in this case.