I don't quite agree with you there Saktoth. I don't think planes e costs and bt are dramatically different from OTA (where they were a viable starting factory in some cases). The reason you can't start with planes now is that com's can spam out MT immediately, making your start phail. Also com's laser does tonnes of damage to planes (unnecessarily IMO, could do tonnes of damage to transports only). In OTA, you could go air first on maps where a land rush wasn't possible (e.g. c2c, GOW) and, in fact, that was the best strategy, and what the pros did (in tourney matches on GOW, the game often came down to freedom fighter micro at start). The reason was if you rushed a bomber you could often get it bombing your enemy's base before he had a chance to get an AA unit out or a con (to make MT), with skill and micro, you might well pwn your enemy severely at start just with the bomber (plus some more that you made to follow it). Sadly, this is not possible in BA because of coms making MT and com laser pwning all planes.Saktoth wrote:Planes are support units. They have large build times and large e costs specifically so you cant use them viably as a starting fac (generally) or entirely on their own. Thats part of the basic design of the mod and i doubt its going to be changed.
Balanced Annihilation V5.8
Moderator: Moderators
Re: huh
No.rcdraco wrote:You're trolling, you derailed
No.rcdraco wrote:retards [AKA Sleska]
I believe this was your first post in the thread:rcdraco wrote:you can move to a forum where you only allow serious people to leave serious comments regarding, currently, the most played Spring mod.
rcdraco wrote:Show same gameplay from one of my cruddy mods too!
BA just steals from every good mod, and the modders always have to make it to satisfy "that one guy" who can't take losing one game as Core or Arm.
In my opinion, there are too many mods based on this lost old game, which in it's day was amazing, and Spring has yet to recreate that game for me.
Purposes of the thread (review for the nubs in the audience):j5mello wrote:Why even have a thread then??LordMatt wrote:I think some people in this thread should focus on their own mods and not on BA. This should be a place to post bugs and for expert players to post balance suggestions (though that's usually handled via PM with Noize anyways). I think sleksa should be allowed to troll anyone who posts outside of these guidelines in this thread, as I need some luls when I get home from a hard days work.
1) Report bugs in BA (open to everyone)
2) Discuss balance in BA (open to known experts with sane opinions)
3) luls when sleksa makes fun of you for posting a stupid suggestion (open to everyone)
Also, people are welcome to offer new effects, unit models in the thread, however they are not welcome to argue with the creators when their offer is not accepted, they should go work on their own mod and make posts in their own mod's thread.
did that post just jump past mine?Or you made a double post and deleted the first, and are covering it up with lies.LordMatt wrote:It's either you imagination, or you're crazy.
http://spring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=230893
http://spring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=230894
http://spring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=230895
http://spring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=230896
Impossible.lurker wrote:Or you made a double post and deleted the first, and are covering it up with lies.LordMatt wrote:It's either you imagination, or you're crazy.
http://spring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=230893
http://spring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=230894
http://spring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=230895
http://spring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=230896
In GoW in OTA, the best start was veh, then followed by air to drop cons on islands. You just had to get an MT up to be safe from air startLordMatt wrote:In OTA, you could go air first on maps where a land rush wasn't possible (e.g. c2c, GOW) and, in fact, that was the best strategy, and what the pros did (in tourney matches on GOW, the game often came down to freedom fighter micro at start).
Sea maps are a different beast, as the water offers a defense against enemy land rushes as well as an incentive to go air to cross it. The primary thing that stops air on sea maps is the AA of skeets (and the tendency to do a skeet rush to scout the enemy).you cant use them viably as a starting fac (generally)
The Com laser also doesnt pwn all planes, he pwns banshees (that werent in OTA) and can kill fighters, but is virtually useless vs bombers.
It is a viable air start is to go air con on a map with reclaim (SoW), suck up the rocks, then go ship or hover and spam with all your metal.
You'll also note i didnt mention the banshee rush either (which is popular on, of all maps, geyser! About as flat and small as you get).
It is also quite popular in team games to airdrop a commander to the frontline- especially Tabula and DSD, though a good player will just get some AA, combomb you, and suck up all the metal.
Generally though, these are risky and niche strats- not so much because he can just spam MT's (Which, considering that each costs more than an LLT and cant hit ground, can really put him behind economically if you just switch facs and spam something else) but more because it leaves you so defensively and economically fragile.
Spamming MT is a very efficient way to stop air first, but if you haven't played the game when coms couldn't make MTs, you don't really know what I'm talking about.Generally though, these are risky and niche strats- not so much because he can just spam MT's (Which, considering that each costs more than an LLT and cant hit ground, can really put him behind economically if you just switch facs and spam something else) but more because it leaves you so defensively and economically fragile.
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1v0ry_k1ng
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- Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 10:24
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Mr.Frumious
- Posts: 139
- Joined: 06 Jul 2006, 17:47
Well, since air-starts are nigh-useless because of the weak conplane and the L0 MT, the real question is: is that a problem?
Now, there's two sides - on the one hand, air-starts are expensive for a good reason - air units are really useful, particularly to rush. We all know the "start air, use conplane to reclaim all rocks" trick. But the L0 MT reduces the rush threat. But fixing air-start could have catastrophic side-effects.
Possible ways to fix air-start
1) Cheaper fac. Doesn't really fix the problem, so much as make it easier to mix planes into the early game, and makes an initial fighter-rush more viable.
2) Better conplanes. The conplane just costs so much for it's nano... but then again, it can get anywhere rather quickly. Perhaps slowing the conplane and giving it a beefier nano would work. Or add a super-slow L1 flying Fark.
3) Better nanotowers (and let Comm build nanotowers). If the conplane could build a nanotower before starting construction on substantial neighboring projects, that could overwhelm it's weak nano. But this could have catastrophic side-effects.
4) Don't. Plane starts are against the spirit of BA, since they're not viable in AA and BA is about stability. Also, the L1 airfac is perfectly useful for other applications, just not as your 1st fac.
Now, there's two sides - on the one hand, air-starts are expensive for a good reason - air units are really useful, particularly to rush. We all know the "start air, use conplane to reclaim all rocks" trick. But the L0 MT reduces the rush threat. But fixing air-start could have catastrophic side-effects.
Possible ways to fix air-start
1) Cheaper fac. Doesn't really fix the problem, so much as make it easier to mix planes into the early game, and makes an initial fighter-rush more viable.
2) Better conplanes. The conplane just costs so much for it's nano... but then again, it can get anywhere rather quickly. Perhaps slowing the conplane and giving it a beefier nano would work. Or add a super-slow L1 flying Fark.
3) Better nanotowers (and let Comm build nanotowers). If the conplane could build a nanotower before starting construction on substantial neighboring projects, that could overwhelm it's weak nano. But this could have catastrophic side-effects.
4) Don't. Plane starts are against the spirit of BA, since they're not viable in AA and BA is about stability. Also, the L1 airfac is perfectly useful for other applications, just not as your 1st fac.
