Balanced Annihilation V5.8

REVENGE · Post by **REVENGE** » 24 Oct 2007, 08:31

Oh, this brings me to ask the question, how can weapons effects cause lag? Is it from too many particles being spawned by CEG, or do custom textures for lasers / beamlasers cause problems as well?

Otherside · Post by **Otherside** » 24 Oct 2007, 09:02

i think the main reason people r concerned and r giving BA the stick is cos it seems to be springs flagship mod its the most played by far and people dotn seem to be willling to try out anything else this is all well and good BA is great fun and people know and love it but people are close minded.

I know BA's main objective is to be a balance mod but if new effects/models watever can add to the game without having an effect on game performance (More lag than neccesary and stuff) why shudnt it be done ? I know its all up to the mod dev's but people like smoth r willing to help so its not like people arent offering to help u on this..

Ill stay on the middle of this topic cos i can see were both sides r coming from but in the end it is the close midned community's fault cos if BA wasnt the popular mod it is i bet 90 percent of the people posting for changes wudnt even bother posting about it

and wud just leave BA to be a balance mod. Were as now Spring seems to be all about BA and the first thing a new player asks is wat i need to play and the first thing any1 will say for sum1 to get the most games (i say this to).

Go get BA 5.8 and delta siege dry and ur set for most games (which is true sadlly more the DSD part)

Just think we need to open peoples minds a bit and trying to show them the best of spring thru the most popular mod wudnt be the worst idea would it ? (plus all the old cavedog models need to be scrapped i know it will take ages to make em all again but mr d is making some nice ones)If not sumthing else has to be done

anywayz ill be off and hope the arguement dusnt get worse

Sleksa · Post by **Sleksa** » 24 Oct 2007, 11:00

Pressure Line wrote:
j5mello wrote:and Forb it great that your championing the "Effects for All" cause but your wasting your time here... For everyone's sake go back and work on your Mod-Formerly-Called-FunTA
i dont see how new weapons fx could possibly hurt BA in any way. all i see is fear of change, something that sadly affects so much of the spring community, by this i mean the fact that people refuse to even try new maps and mods out, or if they do it simply turns into "this isnt BA, wtf am i playing it for?" or "that map isnt DSD, im not gonna play it"

its actually SAD. it brings up the "why bother?" question. why bother developing new mods/games for spring? why bother creating new maps? why bother creating nicer models? why even bother to develop the engine itself?

what is stopping you from making new mods/games for spring

WHAT IS SO FUCKING MAGICAL ABOUT BA THAT YOU SUDDENLY CANNOT DO NEW MODS ANYMORE?

im ok with people making new mods and games for spring, i encourage people to do their own forks.

but do not try to change other people's projects into your own.

BA's goals have been stated and if you dont like them , please make your own mods and ideas, i encourage people to shut their mouth about those fucking awesome ideas they spawn in their heads and instead use them to create their own forks.

The main thing why i argued with forboding was that he almost tried to stuff his shit down our throat just because he thinks those things he suggests should be put in automatically because he is a superior modmaker compared to other warc

(he also has a bigger ego than i have and i was jealous of it ;[ )

resistance to change, for resistances sake, stunts the development of the spring community as a whole. for gods (whichever deity that may be) sake, if you cannot be more open minded, let someone else in.

Change just for the sake of changing things is not always a good thing.

ofcourse if you happen to like changes just for the sake of changes, i can create a random number generator for all the stats in ba and well see just how fucking fun you can have with 150000 hp fleas and 5 hp bulldogs

if you cannot be more open minded, let someone else in.

and also you are basically saying that you want to take up all the work noize has done and claim it as your own. please think and use some fucking manners before saying things like these out open.

i personally dont like people first undermining all the work NOiZE has done, then insulting him by saying that he has no other skills than tweaking numbers, and lastly saying that he should retire so that you could take up his work.

also its not a very good way to make noize listen to the shit you vomit

so noize, if I get you, I can go in and add a bunch of effects. If I do them and you know I don't do crazy over the top stuff. What is the likelyhood you will use the ZAZ?

[ ] Yes [ ] No [X] Maybe

Ignorance is bliss

go cry somewhere else

Pressure Line · Post by **Pressure Line** » 24 Oct 2007, 11:43

Sleksa wrote:what is stopping you from making new mods/games for spring

WHAT IS SO FUCKING MAGICAL ABOUT BA THAT YOU SUDDENLY CANNOT DO NEW MODS ANYMORE?

im ok with people making new mods and games for spring, i encourage people to do their own forks.

but do not try to change other people's projects into your own.

have you ever seen or heard of me working on a BA fork? seriously. it feels like you are missing my point on purpose. the point is why even bother trying, we could include BA and under a dozen maps with the spring download, and any nub could join 75% (or more) of the games in the lobby and not have to download a thing.

this is what brings up the 'why bother?' if people are just going to play BA on DSD, Altored Div, Speedmetal, Greenfields, etc etc, why bother making new content? who is going to use it? may as well just bugfix the next spring release, include BA and the 10 or so maps in the installer and be done with it.

Sleksa wrote:BA's goals have been stated and if you dont like them , please make your own mods and ideas, i encourage people to shut their mouth about those fucking awesome ideas they spawn in their heads and instead use them to create their own forks.

i do make mods of my own. ive never posted any random rubbish in this thread. im not sure if this should even aimed at me.

Sleksa wrote:Change just for the sake of changing things is not always a good thing.

ofcourse if you happen to like changes just for the sake of changes, i can create a random number generator for all the stats in ba and well see just how fucking fun you can have with 150000 hp fleas and 5 hp bulldogs

1) never implied that it was

2) not really sure wtf you are on about here, no-one has ever suggested rubbish like that (at least not seriously).

Sleksa wrote:and also you are basically saying that you want to take up all the work noize has done and claim it as your own. please think and use some fucking manners before saying things like these out open.

i personally dont like people first undermining all the work NOiZE has done, then insulting him by saying that he has no other skills than tweaking numbers, and lastly saying that he should retire so that you could take up his work.

also its not a very good way to make noize listen to the shit you vomit

1) when the hell have i EVER said that? ill thank you to take your words out of my mouth. i will write it out clear I DO NOT WANT TO TAKE OVER BA, NOIZE CAN KEEP IT.

2) find a post where i have said "noize is teh suk he can only use notepad to mod" i dare you. I DO NOT WANT TO TAKE OVER BA, NOIZE CAN KEEP IT.

3) again, you appear to have missed the point of what i am saying entirely. whether this is on purpose so you can try to troll, or you are just plain stupid, i dont know, or care. oh yeah i forgot... I DO NOT WANT TO TAKE OVER BA, NOIZE CAN KEEP IT.

good balance and improved effects are NOT mutually exclusive. whether you choose to believe this is up to you, but open your eyes, consider the fact that you might, possibly, be... wrong.

noone is even saying "NOiZE! You must stop doing all the balance work on BA, concentrate on moar flashy stuff" (and if they are, they're being stupid, we all know that aint gonna happen). you have people (smoth, forb) saying "hey, we will write in the effects for you, do all the work, all you have to do is include them" and yet there is this stubborn resistance to the very idea of change.

I DO NOT WANT TO TAKE OVER BA, NOIZE CAN KEEP IT.

Pressure Line · Post by **Pressure Line** » 24 Oct 2007, 11:56

NOiZE wrote:Making ZAZ is probally not hard, but i really lack the time and motivation to make them. So if you Think you have cool explosions which would fit BA and would get approved by day/me ( so no uber zomfg super mega flashy effects). Make a mutator of BA, show it to me, release it in a way i can use it every way i want, and i don't get trapped into licences.

If all these criteria are matched, THEN there is a SLIM chance that it COULD get included in BA.

and Sleska, it appears that it is YOU who are so inflexibly minded that even considering a weapons fx upgrade for BA induces some sort of rage-seizure. obviously, its NOiZE's mod, he can do whatever he likes to it. and i can perfectly understand his position of "yeah i probably could do it, but i cant be bothered" and furthermore he is saying "and hey, if someone wants to do it, and i like what they do, and it fits BA, i might include it."

im not really sure what the hell your problem is Sleska. but do try and get over it, and yourself.

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 24 Oct 2007, 12:18

1) dont post here, anyone, ever

RavingManiac · Post by **RavingManiac** » 24 Oct 2007, 12:21

This is the BA thread, if you guys are going to have a flamewar with each other, use personal messages or post in another thread in the off-topic discussion category.We are here to talk about BA, not burn each other at stake.

Sleksa · Post by **Sleksa** » 24 Oct 2007, 12:22

1) when the hell have i EVER said that? ill thank you to take your words out of my mouth. i will write it out clear I DO NOT WANT TO TAKE OVER BA, NOIZE CAN KEEP IT.

if you cannot be more open minded, let someone else in.

well there wasnt your name on it but you are saying that someone else should be let in to make changes.

and that pretty much implies that noize either cannot do his job or is making a bad job. otherwise you would just respect noize and let him do his work really.

also what you dont understand, despite it being said for 20 times, is that BA is a very closed project. your opinions are not wanted regarding the development of the mod, if they would, you would be in #warc. Its all up to noize and day in the end. i may(propably dont) have some power to make changes into ba but i dont want them since im only interested in the gameplay, and it is already better than anything else currently in the engine IMO

2) find a post where i have said "noize is teh suk he can only use notepad to mod" i dare you.

that wasnt you, it was forb with his

But hell, maybe all the BA guys know how to do is "tweak" text files.

good balance and improved effects are NOT mutually exclusive. whether you choose to believe this is up to you, but open your eyes, consider the fact that you might, possibly, be... wrong.

i know this, but that is not the point. the point is that why are you wanting to change ba, when you could just create your own mod?

now heres the tricky part, what if ba only wants to be as it is?

how hard is it for you to understand this?

how hard can it be to let ba be as it is?

or are you saying that there is something wrong that needs to be possibly fixed that noize/day cannot do?

But if smoth creates some okayish ones maybe noize will possibly add them.

and if someone creates a new consistent set of all the ba units, they maybe could be put in, or maybe not.

i will be playing it with or without them in any case.

you have people (smoth, forb) saying "hey, we will write in the effects for you, do all the work, all you have to do is include them" and yet there is this stubborn resistance to the very idea of change.

again. You have your own projects, why dont you project all that stuff there?

why do you want to write the effects and do all the work for ba instead of making your own mods?

and for repetition; if your work would be wanted, you would be in #warc helping out noize, but currently i fail to see you there

tombom · Post by **tombom** » 24 Oct 2007, 12:22

Let me sum up this for you guys who clearly have a huge problem comprehending things:
1) The "pros" of BA play it for balance. They don't care about graphics effects.
2) This is NOiZE's mod. Stop trying to spam this thread with suggestions that have already been basically turned down - especially when you don't even play BA in the first place.
3) There is no reason you can't play other mods. There is no reason that you can't go to another mod and ask for more graphics effects of less stagnant gameplay or whatever. You are not going to get it in BA.

Sleksa · Post by **Sleksa** » 24 Oct 2007, 12:23

tombom wrote:Let me sum up this for you guys who clearly have a huge problem comprehending things:
1) The "pros" of BA play it for balance. They don't care about graphics effects.
2) This is NOiZE's mod. Stop trying to spam this thread with suggestions that have already been basically turned down - especially when you don't even play BA in the first place.
3) There is no reason you can't play other mods. There is no reason that you can't go to another mod and ask for more graphics effects of less stagnant gameplay or whatever. You are not going to get it in BA.

<3

RavingManiac · Post by **RavingManiac** » 24 Oct 2007, 12:27

Someone just add FunTa effects to BA while keeping the gameplay and then upload it to unknownfiles as FBA (Flashy Balanced Annihilation), giving 99% credit to NOIZE or something. I can't do that myself because I can't code, but from what read, it does not really require a lot a effort.

Pressure Line · Post by **Pressure Line** » 24 Oct 2007, 12:43

Sleksa wrote:wall of text, missing the point again

Whether you care to admit it or not, BA is Springs 'flagship' mod, its the most played and has had huge amounts of effort (i do not deny this) put into its development, not only by NOiZE and Day, but by Caydr and BSR among others.

And to the point, NOiZE and Day arent the ones running around the thread flaming everyone who disagrees with them Sleska, the closedminded comment was directed specifically at YOU. If, as you say, you are just a player, and dont want to dev the mod, what the heck are you getting so wound up about? what EXACTLY is the problem?

I understand the bit about units being replaced one-by-one, and i agree, it'd look like crap. the reason someone like smoth or forb would offer to update the BA effects is simple, people get bored, a change of pace or direction can be good and help you get different perspectives on the main line of your work. so the appropriate response is NOiZE's "go ahead, knock yourself out, i may use them, i may not" not Sleska's "fuck off. BA doesn't need changes. go away and work on your own shit. why are you even offering?"

open your eyes Sleska, a change is not bad because NOiZE didn't think of it first.

Day · Post by **Day** » 24 Oct 2007, 12:45

He's the family attack dog.

Pressure Line · Post by **Pressure Line** » 24 Oct 2007, 12:48

Day wrote:He's the family attack dog.

hahaha, you said it first.

gotta say, he is a lot more effective than my two dogs. i came home early and they didnt even get out of their kennels to see what the noise was. ofc as soon as they saw me they started barking their heads off (but that was after id been home about 10 minutes and went looking for them to see where they were)

Sleksa · Post by **Sleksa** » 24 Oct 2007, 12:54

Whether you care to admit it or not, BA is Springs 'flagship' mod, its the most played and has had huge amounts of effort (i do not deny this) put into its development, not only by NOiZE and Day, but by Caydr and BSR among others.

i dont care if it is or isnt the "Flagship" NOiZE and Day are there just to create a balanced version out of absolute annihilation.

THERE IS NOTHING MORE INTO IT. if you want your flashy shit then do a fork. its that simple

And to the point, NOiZE and Day arent the ones running around the thread flaming everyone who disagrees with them Sleska, the closedminded comment was directed specifically at YOU. If, as you say, you are just a player, and dont want to dev the mod, what the heck are you getting so wound up about? what EXACTLY is the problem?

My problem is dicks like you who have even bigger ego than i do. and think of themselves even more than i do

. the reason someone like smoth or forb would offer to update the BA effects is simple, people get bored, a change of pace or direction can be good and help you get different perspectives on the main line of your work

ok what part in the "i cant see you in #warc, making the changes" and "Ba is a very closed project" did you not understand? Do i need to explain it in detail?

if you want refreshment or change of direction go play fifth millenium or epic annihilation or whatever it was, ba has a goal and its not changing from it just for shits and giggles

so the appropriate response is NOiZE's "go ahead, knock yourself out, i may use them, i may not" not Sleska's "fuck off. BA doesn't need changes. go away and work on your own shit. why are you even offering?"

basically noize's answer was same as mine but without the swearing.

my answer was "fuck off and do your own mod" - nothing more nothing less

If you really REALLY REALLY Want to help, then please find bugs, other than that your help is not needed.

now needed does not mean we are absolutely against everything you do by principle. its just not needed.

The effects in CA for example are too flashy in my opinion, and will not work out with ba's style.

now please read it, understand it, and get out to do your own mod

"Please

"

Saktoth · Post by **Saktoth** » 24 Oct 2007, 13:02

if you cannot be more open minded, let someone else in.

BA isnt shutting anyone out. Hell, they specifically DONT innovate so that innovative mods get all the credit and limelight for what they do.

If BA and XTA and the other OTA based mods werent around, i doubt we would even have a player community at all.

Why? Because if people really wanted to play all the other mods that are out there- they would (and do), in just the same way they would play any other RTS instead of Spring (You could blame Starcraft just as easily for stealing your mods fan base). BA isnt stealing everyone elses players, BA is the whole basis of the community- its the only reason people do play (though, im sure a large portion would still be playing XTA if BA wasnt around).

What you have with BA and XTA is a quality, stable mod that is well enjoyed and well played- capable of attracting new players into Spring as well as old-time OTA'ers. This means you have a ready-made base of players who are already utilizing the Spring engine and for whom it is only a short jump to play a new mod. Without that, you'd need to convince new players to download spring, teach them how to use the engine, teach them how to get used to the controls, etc.

That helps non-OTA content mods. It doesnt hurt them.

As much work as has been put into so many mods, they dont have the level of balance and depth of BA. BA has hundreds of units, and over 10 years worth of balancing experience honing down and perfecting the gameplay. Its a hard thing to match, but that doesnt mean we shouldnt hold ourselves to a standard of quality. You might have to do some promotion work to get it off the ground, but if you make a mod as fun and deep as BA, people will play it.

flagship

XTA is the flagship.

clumsy_culhane · Post by **clumsy_culhane** » 24 Oct 2007, 13:04

tombom wrote:Let me sum up this for you guys who clearly have a huge problem comprehending things:
1) The "pros" of BA play it for balance. They don't care about graphics effects.
2) This is NOiZE's mod. Stop trying to spam this thread with suggestions that have already been basically turned down - especially when you don't even play BA in the first place.
3) There is no reason you can't play other mods. There is no reason that you can't go to another mod and ask for more graphics effects of less stagnant gameplay or whatever. You are not going to get it in BA.

summed up perfectly.. that post should be stickied somehow...

tombom · Post by **tombom** » 24 Oct 2007, 13:04

NOiZE has had plenty of opportunities to add flashy effects to BA but he hasn't. If he wanted to, he would. No amount of spamming about BA needing flashy effects will make him add them.

Also +1 to Saktoth.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 24 Oct 2007, 14:25

not really tombom and crew, noize doesn't have the time to add the effects which is why he said make a mutator and see.

btw guys, last I checked the lobby, your flagship mod was dieing. Hence why I was suggesting things which sleska so virulently rejected.

I am most confident that the things I suggested have not been suggested before and frankly yes I could probably bother making a ba mutator/fork but I would remove all of the rediculous conspam that caydr added and many other things to a point that it couldn't be called BA.

I suggest things because I would like to play BA and coming from AA an having speced BA games, I know what it plays like and I felt that some suggestions would hel.

again: your mod is slipping maybe something IS needed.

Saktoth · Post by **Saktoth** » 24 Oct 2007, 20:21

For gods sake, if its slipping (which it aint) let it die its natural death, dont try and save it.

People will play what people will play.

Spring RTS Engine

Balanced Annihilation V5.8