Balanced Annihilation V5.8

KingRaptor · Post by **KingRaptor** » 17 Oct 2007, 02:50

Complicated wrote:

The good news is, no-one cares what you think.

And again:

Zpock wrote:hard and rough truth >> smooth as silk bullshit

LordMatt · Post by **LordMatt** » 17 Oct 2007, 03:03

SpikedHelmet wrote:Well it would be somewhat redundant, wouldn't it? You only get the best by playing a mod a lot -- and you only play a mod a lot if you like it.

I may be good at spitting in my own eye but that doesn't make me special. The point is, BA doesn't really even deserve the name "mod" as its nothing more than glorified text changes. The only reason it and all the other TA clones are so popular is because it is based off of (or ripped off of) TA, which is and was a good, solid game, and there are no other mods which can so easily rip off of an already-completed product, do a couple of 5-minute changes, and come out with something new. The rest of us "modders" have to come up with entirely new content.

Good for you. I don't care about your mods.

Saktoth · Post by **Saktoth** » 17 Oct 2007, 04:58

Panthers, while not exceedingly great at anything, are pretty good at everything.

Sorry, Panthers are not great and still need buff. The mainstay of t2 vech is Lugers mixed with t1 against t1 defenses, then bulldogs/penes once hes got t2 defense up and you have mohos up.

Panthers are 4x the cost of flash, 2x the cost of stumpies- yet with a HP somewhere between flash and stumpies. They have a good DPS now, 160, which is 60% more than a flashtank, and go about the same speed. Their range is also slightly less than a stumpy. This means that they are good at raiding undefended targets, but otherwise they are really just overpriced t1 units. The only unique thing they have is their AA missile, which means if he is using gunships in defense they can sometimes be worthwhile (but mobile flak rips up gunships anyway).

I too feel that t2 land forces are mostly pretty good at the moment, especially given the huge nerf to air that resulted from the flare removal (I still think a few units need a buff to compensate for the loss, honestly).

Mr.Frumious · Post by **Mr.Frumious** » 17 Oct 2007, 06:30

Saktoth, to me that sounds like the point - the Panther is a T1 squadron rolled up into a single unit... which isn't useful at T2. Only really useful for raiding remote mexxes, where its AA can help fend off the fighter-swarms and brawler-defense that could come to the rescue...

It's important that it's the fastest land-unit with AA, isn't it?

Sleksa · Post by **Sleksa** » 17 Oct 2007, 07:30

I still think that most of the level 2 Arm Kbots need a buff. And please, stop bringing up the Sharpshooter, that's one out of like 15 units. We know, he's awesome. Stop.

just because you cant use something properly does not mean that its underpowered, i consider t2 arm bots as good as t2 core

The thing is you need some kind of quality control on balance suggestions. If you're not known as a good player and don't provide any evidence at all, the guys who make this mod will just ignore you.

Please show me some replays where you totally own t2 arm bots using the OP t2 core bots?

hard and rough truth >> smooth as silk bullshit

<3

tombom · Post by **tombom** » 17 Oct 2007, 09:19

SpikedHelmet wrote:Well it would be somewhat redundant, wouldn't it? You only get the best by playing a mod a lot -- and you only play a mod a lot if you like it.

Pretty much all good players can easily adapt to other games of a similar style with a couple of games and be just as good.

I may be good at spitting in my own eye but that doesn't make me special. The point is, BA doesn't really even deserve the name "mod" as its nothing more than glorified text changes. The only reason it and all the other TA clones are so popular is because it is based off of (or ripped off of) TA, which is and was a good, solid game, and there are no other mods which can so easily rip off of an already-completed product, do a couple of 5-minute changes, and come out with something new. The rest of us "modders" have to come up with entirely new content.

What the hell is this crap about text changes somehow being less legitamate that any other changes? I've seen mods for other games which have a huge amount of work placed into them that are 90% text. Text is where the gameplay is defined.

RavingManiac · Post by **RavingManiac** » 17 Oct 2007, 11:41

Is it just me, or are lugers and pillagers a little out of place as frontline assault units?

I'm not saying they can annihilate a swarm of T2 tanks, but artillery should be a bit more like what it should be: slow moving, low rate of fire, poor heath, tons of damage per shot, less-than 100% accuracy... That way, you won't have people charging lugers all by themselves into bulldog swarms, as I have often witnessed.
(If you find anything wrong with my post, then I am open to criticism. Just don't use words like 'noob', 'idiot', 'shit', 'fuck', etc)

[Krogoth86] · Post by **[Krogoth86]** » 17 Oct 2007, 12:48

RavingManiac wrote:but artillery should be a bit more like what it should be: slow moving, low rate of fire, poor heath, tons of damage per shot, less-than 100% accuracy...

Well to my mind they move slow, have just the health of a flash, have an accuracy that lets them miss pretty often if you head for one specific target and do lots of damage. Ok - they don't have the dps of a Bulldog or Reaper but that would be kinda unfair don't you think? Besides the Stumpy-like damage also isn't very bad and with its big AoE it can multiply that when hitting numerous units...

RavingManiac wrote:That way, you won't have people charging lugers all by themselves into bulldog swarms, as I have often witnessed.

Well I think there are 2 points here:
1.)
Thank god he runs into your Bulldogs with his artillery and doesn't keep bombarding you and force an attack on his backed up arties...

2.)
If it's too late for your Lugers to "run away" it's better to just keep them where they are as they cannot really fire backwards. This way to Bulldogs should charge into the Lugers and not the other way round...

DemO · Post by **DemO** » 17 Oct 2007, 15:12

Mr.Frumious wrote:Saktoth, to me that sounds like the point - the Panther is a T1 squadron rolled up into a single unit... which isn't useful at T2. Only really useful for raiding remote mexxes, where its AA can help fend off the fighter-swarms and brawler-defense that could come to the rescue...

It's important that it's the fastest land-unit with AA, isn't it?

WTF?

In testing we found the complete opposite. Panthers were surprisingly effective raiding units with their new buff, provided you have a decent number of them (anything around 10 or more).

They were way more effective than bulldog/goliath/reaper at attacking fixed static defences such as popups. They totally annihilate whole bases if you get them in and micro. Bulldog counters the lightning tanks, as do Goliaths cost for cost provided there is enough space to micro, but that makes sense.

I'm pretty sure if you put lightning tanks up against penetrators or snipers for example they will perform far better than more armoured units such as reaper, bulldog or goliath would.

Panthers are also very effective against kbots.

Mr.Frumious · Post by **Mr.Frumious** » 17 Oct 2007, 15:19

DemO wrote:
Mr.Frumious wrote:Saktoth, to me that sounds like the point - the Panther is a T1 squadron rolled up into a single unit... which isn't useful at T2. Only really useful for raiding remote mexxes, where its AA can help fend off the fighter-swarms and brawler-defense that could come to the rescue...

It's important that it's the fastest land-unit with AA, isn't it?
WTF?

In testing we found the complete opposite. Panthers were surprisingly effective raiding units with their new buff, provided you have a decent number of them (anything around 10 or more).

They were way more effective than bulldog/goliath/reaper at attacking fixed static defences such as popups. They totally annihilate whole bases if you get them in and micro. Bulldog counters the lightning tanks, as do Goliaths cost for cost provided there is enough space to micro, but that makes sense.

I'm pretty sure if you put lightning tanks up against penetrators or snipers for example they will perform far better than more armoured units such as reaper, bulldog or goliath would.

Panthers are also very effective against kbots.

Ah, I wasn't using enough of them I guess. Was thinking of them as larger units than they are.

Really, it sounds like you've brought forward the L1 gameplay into L2, where the Goli is an L2 pillager and the Panther is the L2 Flash.

Hellspawn · Post by **Hellspawn** » 17 Oct 2007, 18:28

Mr.Frumious wrote: Ah, I wasn't using enough of them I guess. Was thinking of them as larger units than they are.

Really, it sounds like you've brought forward the L1 gameplay into L2, where the Goli is an L2 pillager and the Panther is the L2 Flash.

Panther+bully mix works well vs random swarms or even gollies.
IMO lvl 2 vehicle balance is pretty good atm.

Cabbage · Post by **Cabbage** » 17 Oct 2007, 19:09

Groups of panthers pwn if you use them well

REVENGE · Post by **REVENGE** » 17 Oct 2007, 19:16

Goddamit, just give Panthers more hp than Stumpies and we're good here. No need for the huge DPS necessarily, just hp.

MR.D · Post by **MR.D** » 17 Oct 2007, 20:38

Zipper, Pelican, ok explain how these units are as good, or even equal to Core T2 kbots.

REVENGE · Post by **REVENGE** » 17 Oct 2007, 20:41

MR.D wrote:Zipper, Pelican, ok explain how these units are as good, or even equal to Core T2 kbots.

They suck ass, and that's how it is.

DZHIBRISH · Post by **DZHIBRISH** » 17 Oct 2007, 21:34

Ba balance sux...its just all about buffing a unit that uv noticed is too weak while that buff creats more problems...so random..

tombom · Post by **tombom** » 17 Oct 2007, 21:35

DZHIBRISH wrote:Ba balance sux...its just all about buffing a unit that uv noticed is too weak while that buff creats more problems...so random..

thanks for your eloquent and constructive criticism on ba

Hellspawn · Post by **Hellspawn** » 17 Oct 2007, 21:54

DZHIBRISH wrote:Ba balance sux...its just all about buffing a unit that uv noticed is too weak while that buff creats more problems...so random..

No we won't play your mod, go away.

LordMatt · Post by **LordMatt** » 18 Oct 2007, 00:51

RavingManiac wrote:Is it just me, or are lugers and pillagers a little out of place as frontline assault units? I'm not saying they can annihilate a swarm of T2 tanks, but artillery should be a bit more like what it should be: slow moving, low rate of fire, poor heath, tons of damage per shot, less-than 100% accuracy... That way, you won't have people charging lugers all by themselves into bulldog swarms, as I have often witnessed.
(If you find anything wrong with my post, then I am open to criticism. Just don't use words like 'noob', 'idiot', 'shit', 'fuck', etc)

Fail. Artillery are balanced nicely atm.

Some People wrote: About panthers

I think they're fine and I use them a fair amount.

DZHIBRISH wrote: Ba balance sux...its just all about buffing a unit that uv noticed is too weak while that buff creats more problems...so random..

GTFO and go play your mod no one cares about.

DZHIBRISH · Post by **DZHIBRISH** » 18 Oct 2007, 02:26

ok...fanboy.
If im so wrong and only say ba is unbalanced cause i want people to play my mod i am willing to ask you a few questions about balance in general and about ba's balance versus other balance systems if you can give we reasonable answers i will never say a bad thing about ba.
And i would liek t ohear some constructive critisicm from a strong supporter of ba like you.
You arent trying to say ba is perfect are you?than please tell me what you think needs to be improved in ba.

Spring RTS Engine

Balanced Annihilation V5.8