Balanced Annihilation V5.8

[MR.D]

he's lucy?

great, now I have to change my name again ^^

[Saktoth]

On mixing scouts with bombers- scouts only take 1 hit from any AA, and since almost all AA is rapid fire and has cost-prioritized targeting (And bombers are the most expensive thing in an air raid) this wont work so great.

Same reason mixing jeffies to 'distract' a bertha doesnt work (And mixing flash and stumpies is right out- Bertha has AoE and will own huge swarms of them). This is also why when you build a shield, Berthas seem to make a b-line for it and hit it as soon as you lay down the nanoframe (and blow up any cons working on it), even when he hasnt scouted you in ages (cost-prioritized targetting of radar blobs SUCKS). Shields are often the most expensive thing in the area (Facs, adv fusions, etc dont have weapons and are thus given a lower target priority- thank god).

Another thing I saw in an older shield documentation was the possibility to have it react as an "umbrella" i.e. only that shield layer reflects - if you are inside the shield your shots won't be reflected. If that's still possible I'd like that too as it finally would make it somewhat vulnerable to tanks...

Yeah thats perfectly possible and not a totally bad idea... (though its not like shields arent piss easy to take down anyway).

To buy that time to device a real counter-attack you can do panic-built radar jammers

Juno will murder this, but people probably arent used to the idea that 'omg juno is useful' yet, so we'll see if this becomes a problem.

[Evil4Zerggin]

You can also make those long range lvl 2 AA buildings (forgot name) and lure enemy fighters into range. Use that.

Mercury/Screamer (Long Range Missile Towers)? T2 fighters are stealthed, so you would need line of sight to attack them with the LRMT, at which point you often might as well just send Phalanx/Copperhead to their fighter patrols. You might get any patrolling radar planes if you build your LRMTs close enough, which I guess is useful, but it will take more than that to take down a fighter screen. LRMTs aren't exactly cheap either.

On mixing scouts with bombers- scouts only take 1 hit from any AA, and since almost all AA is rapid fire and has cost-prioritized targeting (And bombers are the most expensive thing in an air raid) this wont work so great.

Works wonders against LRMTs and Banishers, though. If the scouts are the first thing they see, they'll still be reloading when the bombers fly overhead.

[Sleksa]

Nanoshielding was an interesting tactic that worked for both BBs and guardians. It's too bad it doesn't work with spring IMO.

now who said that? repeat on makes it even easier in spring since you dont have to make a layout everytime you deflect a shot.

sure a Mstore is not enough because of the big aoe of the lrpcs but in t2 there are some buildings with huge hitspheres

Juno will murder this, but people probably arent used to the idea that 'omg juno is useful' yet, so we'll see if this becomes a problem.

yeah but a panicbuilt jammer will buy you some time, plus its really cheap and easy to get up as the first thing you do in the process of countering the enemy bertha.

The main purpose of the BA thread is as place for sleksa to make fun of nubs

i can be nice too sometimes

[KDR_11k]

Krog, I think what Matt is saying is that you should try making BBs and see if you manage to win with them. Sometimes a unit pwning you badly isn't because the unit is OP but because you either fail to deal with it correctly or because the other player can use it to a very high level of proficiency. E.g. there's replays where one of the master players rapes his opponents with fleas, would that mean fleas are OP or just that he's so awesome fleas become a powerful weapon in his hands? If you think a tactic is OP try it yourself and see if you can win with it, there may be difficulties you haven't seen yet. What he's saying is that only the attacker has the right to call a strategy OP because only the attacker knows how it works against a large variety of opponents and what difficulties there are.

[[Krogoth86]]

@KDR_11k:
Yes, I agree with you on that and since 5.8 I (i.e. my team as I pretty much only play bigger team games) won because of BBs before the enemy had one for numerous times now. Maybe Saktoth still remembers that DSD game where we had lots of Berthas (which unfortunately can't reach the far off enemy bases) and which only a insane amount of bombers could end as every little ground step forward of them was just desperately bombed to stone age. When getting the Berthas up they also had some shields on their forward outposts but they get smashed in no time. There also were some Green Fields games where it was just too easy as the shields which were built to give protection were smashed in no time. I mean it's not that I didn't enjoy that and the enemy anger which came out pretty clear but it on the other side was no fun anymore...

To be fair BBs also aren't the one ultimate unit as most games get decided by ground forces but once you have the eco to afford a Bertha (while still caring about the rest) as support its very often a first Bertha player wins...

[Day]

I ended 1/2 of my teamgames with atlas.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

worth pointing out; if decent players are having problems sallying out to attack berthas and ending up in stalemates, think how the noobs (the other 95%..) will cope

[Hellspawn]

On mixing scouts with bombers- scouts only take 1 hit from any AA, and since almost all AA is rapid fire and has cost-prioritized targeting (And bombers are the most expensive thing in an air raid) this wont work so great.

If you send scouts/peepers first, they will waste ammo on them.

[Mr.Frumious]

On mixing scouts with bombers- scouts only take 1 hit from any AA, and since almost all AA is rapid fire and has cost-prioritized targeting (And bombers are the most expensive thing in an air raid) this wont work so great.

If you send scouts/peepers first, they will waste ammo on them.

This is mostly only important for units with slow-moving, low-ROF, long-ranged missiles. They'll lock-on to the first target and keep shooting until they can fire no more before acquiring a new target. For pack0s and flaks this isn't important, but is particularly relevant for screamers, MTs, and fighters on-patrol.

[Hellspawn]

On mixing scouts with bombers- scouts only take 1 hit from any AA, and since almost all AA is rapid fire and has cost-prioritized targeting (And bombers are the most expensive thing in an air raid) this wont work so great.

If you send scouts/peepers first, they will waste ammo on them.

This is mostly only important for units with slow-moving, low-ROF, long-ranged missiles. They'll lock-on to the first target and keep shooting until they can fire no more before acquiring a new target. For pack0s and flaks this isn't important, but is particularly relevant for screamers, MTs, and fighters on-patrol.

Excatly.

[ianmac]

I just played BA for the first time and it was GRATE !!! To whomever made BA, cograts for a job well done!

[Saktoth]

If you send scouts/peepers first, they will waste ammo on them.

This is mostly only important for units with slow-moving, low-ROF, long-ranged missiles. They'll lock-on to the first target and keep shooting until they can fire no more before acquiring a new target. For pack0s and flaks this isn't important, but is particularly relevant for screamers, MTs, and fighters on-patrol.

Excatly.

Not with scouts. Scouts take 1 shot from an MT, and its RoF isnt that bad (especially when you have 20 of them, which you usually do). He aint wasting no ammo. Used to be true with fighters, but fighters dont have flares anymore so they die pretty fast (even to MT's). It only really matters for LRMT, which is far from the standard in AA weapons.

[LordMatt]

Nanoshielding was an interesting tactic that worked for both BBs and guardians. It's too bad it doesn't work with spring IMO.

now who said that? repeat on makes it even easier in spring since you dont have to make a layout everytime you deflect a shot.

sure a Mstore is not enough because of the big aoe of the lrpcs but in t2 there are some buildings with huge hitspheres

Yes I know Sleksa, but in OTA you could also fire through the nanoframe, which as far as I know doesn't work in spring. Thus, putting a mstore or something else in front of your BB or guard is kinda pointless.

truth

My point put very nicely.

nub talk

Well, just in case you had any credibility here, it's gone now. tbtfh no one cares about the balance opinions of someone who only plays large team games where his teammates build BB and win. It may be harsh, but it's the truth, and it's for the best. Might as well quit posting in this thread (and go out and learn the game in 1v1, 2v2 on non-porc good maps, should you care to understand the point of view of the good players here).

[Evil4Zerggin]

Not with scouts. Scouts take 1 shot from an MT, and its RoF isnt that bad (especially when you have 20 of them, which you usually do). He aint wasting no ammo. Used to be true with fighters, but fighters dont have flares anymore so they die pretty fast (even to MT's). It only really matters for LRMT, which is far from the standard in AA weapons.

Agreed. In fact, you get more hit points per cost by building Phoenix than by building Peepers. If all you want is a fast flying hit point shield (not this is necessarily the best tactic), build radar seaplanes or torpedo bombers. At least they will last longer before the missile turrets switch targets to your (real) bombers.

[ralphie]

Do you guys have pre planned replies based on either:

1) well in OTA...
2) LULZ you only play team games...
3) LULZ I could beat you in 1v1 therefore...
4) Who are you?

It's so amusing seeing the exact same reply every time someone tries to make a suggestion.

[Acidd_UK]

The whole point of the lrpc is that it can reach your most protected and important areas, where other units cannot penetrate. making a system that removes this threat also removes the reason behind building berthas.

I don't think you should argue that way because you could say the same for nukes which take even longer to build, are harder to use on moving targets and cost more but I don't think you'd like a game without Antinukes...

I don't think anyone would say that. A nuke and a bertha are actually quite different (who would have thought it!), if you're not scouting the enemy, then the first sign that they have built a bertha isnt the instant and wholesale destruction of your whole base, and thus gives you time to spaem bombers. Arguing a bertha is like a nuke without an anti isn't really sensible.

[Sleksa]

Do you guys have pre planned replies based on either:

1) well in OTA...
2) LULZ you only play team games...
3) LULZ I could beat you in 1v1 therefore...
4) Who are you?

It's so amusing seeing the exact same reply every time someone tries to make a suggestion.

it's so amusing seeing the exact same replies from a hundred different retards.



Suggestions arent needed
suggestions arent wanted
no new units are wanted
no new ideas are wanted

if you still want to do this, please go to talk with ca devs. if not, please shut the fuck up.

Here's the reason for it.

Ba's goal is to preserve the gameplay of aa, while making it balanced(Balanced Annihilation)

Absolute annihilation on the other hand afaik, was made to enchance ota a little.

Therefore ba's goal is to preserve balanced, enchanced gameplay of OTA.

Ba is currently a competitive 1v1 mod, team-games have absolute no fucking value currently as t2 is a mess, but it is being worked on.

as ba is currently a comptitive 1v1 mod, people who can beat you in the game show superior knowledge and understanding of the game. Therefore you are wrong and they are right. unless you try to mean that people with inferior knowledge of the game-mechanics should have bigger value to those who have superior knowledge?

The question of "who are you" came because i have never seen half of the posters in this thread play ba, yet making suggestions and talking people like hellspawn and lordmatt down, who i KNOW to be good players.

[TechnoTone]

The biggest problem with these BA threads isn't the subject matter or the fact that many people have differing point of view. The biggest problem IMO is the demeaning manner in which some people refer to others which often then degenerates into mindless bickering followed by all out flame wars.

Before anyone says it: yes, I know, it's the internet. I just feel that it's unfortunate that the community is continually plagued by a minority of ill-mannered, disrespectful jackanapes who have nothing better to do than disrupt legitimate discussions and attempt to elicit arguments.

(Apologies for posting off-topic, I'll go now.)

[Mr.Frumious]

Not with scouts. Scouts take 1 shot from an MT, and its RoF isnt that bad (especially when you have 20 of them, which you usually do). He aint wasting no ammo. Used to be true with fighters, but fighters dont have flares anymore so they die pretty fast (even to MT's). It only really matters for LRMT, which is far from the standard in AA weapons.

Did MT's missile speed get buffed recently? I haven't actually closely watched the effect in a few versions (plus, games that go late enough to require heavy bomber-attacks are rare). It used to be that a scout would move fast enough that, while it would get killed by the first shot, it would draw fire from the first few shots from every MT in the base because it could plunge so deep in before that first missile caught-up enough to hit.