Balanced Annihilation V5.8

LordMatt · Post by **LordMatt** » 06 Oct 2007, 00:37

There seems to be a disconnect between people who actually use shields and say they don't work and people who don't need to use them but say they do work fine. I think shields ought to do what they say they do, deflect plasma shots, however they should not be the cheapest counter for berthas (bombing them).

Saktoth · Post by **Saktoth** » 06 Oct 2007, 01:29

Berthas are still effective when an enemy has a shield. You can try and take the shield down by firing into it, you can attack it with other methods, or you can simply fire somewhere else. Even if their base is fully shielded, it will make expanding or attacking beyond those shields much more difficult.

Naturally, bombing the bertha is the most effective approach but that can be difficult (and sometimes, your bombers are better spent in a decisive strike against their econ). The flare changes have also made running an AA line (esp an enemy fighter patrol) a bit more difficult among other things.

Linebacker · Post by **Linebacker** » 06 Oct 2007, 12:12

I just found out, that you only can build adv. fusion with a con vehicle (named Tech Level 3) but not with a con kbot (Tech Level 2).

Can someone enlighten me about this? KBots can build a Level 3 Botplant and vehicles can build adv. fusions in return? I'm confused.

Generally I would make use of the KBot lab first, because KBot can climb on hills and go for Krogoths and other nice Level3 bots. And unless I am keen on some specific vehicle, KBots will do if I cope with not having adv. fusions? Hmm.

Machiosabre · Post by **Machiosabre** » 06 Oct 2007, 12:18

Linebacker wrote:
Can someone enlighten me about this? KBots can build a Level 3 Botplant and vehicles can build adv. fusions in return?

well yeah, though theres not really any reason for it to be like that other than kbots should build big kbots.

[Krogoth86] · Post by **[Krogoth86]** » 06 Oct 2007, 13:49

Linebacker wrote:Generally I would make use of the KBot lab first, because KBot can climb on hills and go for Krogoths and other nice Level3 bots. And unless I am keen on some specific vehicle, KBots will do if I cope with not having adv. fusions? Hmm.

Well yeah Krogoth & Co is nice but you will find out that tanks are much stronger than KBots in general and you will reach Tech 3 only in few games. Let's face it: Sumo and Sniper are the only very good Tech 2 KBots in the game while on the Tank-Tree there are lots of strong units. With this said you'll always have a hard time when you want to go straight for Tech 3...

It sometimes sucks not to have both the Adv. Fusion and the Gantry as possible build options but I think it's ok. When you want to build the Gantry and you just have tanks you'll probably have enough eco power to afford a Level 2 KBot Lab in order to do that. The other way around might not be that common but I think it's not THAT bad as I don't like the Adv. Fusions and build them only in rare circumstances. They sure give you lots of E and for that have a good metal cost but the nuke explosion on death is just too dangerous imo. In many many games you will see just a single Bomber swarm that makes it past the AA-defense being a game ender as with bombing the Adv. Fusions you in most cases will blow up either his entire base or most of his eco as on most maps you don't have much space to put them into safe places where they can't kill anything of value...

mauritis · Post by **mauritis** » 07 Oct 2007, 12:40

Playing BA, I made some considerations about stealth units. I think that making a stealth Factory (at T1 or T2 level), that produce only stealth units, and a stealth engineers, who can build stealth buildings, could be a way to make order about this category of units.
Otherwise, I think that adding more stealth units and buildings could let grow the strategies that you follow to play.

Do you want to build Flash, or Stealth Flash? Stealth jammers, anti air, guns, anti nuke, nuke, and so on...

You can choose between two parallel ways about all units and buildings (air and water too.

If you want many stealth units, you have to upgrade the economy, but you could build a TOTAL Stealth base and combat units, or part of them.

What do you think about?

Sleksa · Post by **Sleksa** » 07 Oct 2007, 12:45

Complicated · Post by **Complicated** » 07 Oct 2007, 13:53

if you have to say something like that find a more respectful way of doing it

CautionToTheWind · Post by **CautionToTheWind** » 07 Oct 2007, 14:13

mauritis i think the goal of BA is to stay pretty much in its current form, allowing for balance changes. Suggestions for new factories and units will probably be better recieved in other mods.

mauritis · Post by **mauritis** » 07 Oct 2007, 14:37

I think so, i don't means really new units, but only the main old ones (but more expensive) with stealth mode, grouped in a specicic factory. The player can choose what build, but he knows the units.

Nothing really new.

Sleksa · Post by **Sleksa** » 07 Oct 2007, 15:27

i have mah stealth flash

takin' down ur mexes

cloackin' away

uncloacking by your side

let the emg of love show the light to your dear commander

[Krogoth86] · Post by **[Krogoth86]** » 08 Oct 2007, 01:40

mauritis wrote:I think so, i don't means really new units, but only the main old ones (but more expensive) with stealth mode, grouped in a specicic factory. The player can choose what build, but he knows the units.

Nothing really new.

Well besides that such things won't make it into BA (as the only thing that will change are some balancing issues) I think this is a bad idea. The reason for this: What should I want to do with Stealth Flashes? They are fast close combat raid tanks so what good should be a stealth version which would have higher costs and for which I also have to spend loads of metal for a special lab. The same goes for pretty much any other unit - stealth won't add anything good to your units besides that the enemy maybe hasn't that much time to see your units coming. But even if that's the case if dozens of Flashes or some Bulldogs are close to you and ready to attack there isn't much he could do at all even if he would see them coming. Besides if you really want stealth you have Jammer Towers and Mobile Jammers so why would I want stealthed units or even stealthed AA-Towers, LLTs or whatsoever...

The recent are stealth effect is sufficent I think - extra units with extra Labs don't make sense because this feature is no use for them...

Saktoth · Post by **Saktoth** » 08 Oct 2007, 06:28

Please, enough about the cloaked units. Lets talk about a real issue like LRPC's or the zippers or something.

REVENGE · Post by **REVENGE** » 08 Oct 2007, 07:10

Saktoth wrote:Please, enough about the cloaked units. Lets talk about a real issue like LRPC's or the zippers or something.

Explain how those are issues?

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 08 Oct 2007, 09:37

Zippers are useful in a fair few situations, and LRPCs are absurdly accurate.

Machiosabre · Post by **Machiosabre** » 08 Oct 2007, 09:59

im pretty sure peewees and fleas are better than zippers at everything.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 08 Oct 2007, 10:12

Machiosabre wrote:im pretty sure peewees and fleas are better than zippers at everything.

Not to mention the AK, but when I say definite things rather than be vague, somebody always has to engage me in battle.

Machiosabre · Post by **Machiosabre** » 08 Oct 2007, 10:47

neddiedrow wrote:
Machiosabre wrote:im pretty sure peewees and fleas are better than zippers at everything.
Not to mention the AK, but when I say definite things rather than be vague, somebody always has to engage me in battle.

you mean when you make shit up?

Hellspawn · Post by **Hellspawn** » 08 Oct 2007, 11:30

Yeah lvl 2 bots need some rebalancing.

I am guessing thats next thing on todo list.

[Krogoth86] · Post by **[Krogoth86]** » 08 Oct 2007, 11:47

Saktoth wrote:Please, enough about the cloaked units. Lets talk about a real issue like LRPC's or the zippers or something.

True though I think the LRPCs are okay even with the recent changes on them. But in my opinion the shields are too bad as they are the only option of defense against LRPCs. You might even think about prefering BBs instead of air bomber runs as the recent shields as counter are a joke and take ages to build (and even if built you now can easily smash them even with LRPCs). So as you have lots of damage, lots of accuracy and pretty much no good counter this has become too overpowered in my opinion and from its effectiveness it has even surpassed bombers. They can be countered in many different ways while the only defense against LRPCs are shields...

So the only way to have a "real" defense is to destroy the LRPCs - preferably with air of course. To my mind this isn't what it should be like...

The next thing are the K-Bots as the tanks got a good change in the recent release. The best example is the Zipper which Saktoth mentioned (for numerous times I think

). He's just bad as even Peewees suprass him in cost effectiveness. With that said he should get a major health upgrade at least if not even some more dps. When it comes to KBots I also think that the Sumo is OP though I like to use him...

Maybe his health should be decreased to 10.000 (which is 4000 less if I'm right)...

Then there are some minor things:
- Some seaplanes are too strong (seaplane scouts for example have lesser costs than the Level 2 planes but about twice as much Health)
- The Blade is not worth its costs and just like the Rapier he has problems with his unguided rockets which let him miss numerous times on smaller targets

Spring RTS Engine

Balanced Annihilation V5.8

Stealth Factory

Re: Stealth Factory