yeah xml is good but i still think the anouncement content should be html if you just use xml it will be fixed and controled by the lobby and the anouncement have to look the same on all lobbiesSinbadEV wrote:based on my definition I would add a "class" tag to the <a> record that would indicate where to open the link, default would be browser, map, mod, update, etc.
so
The implementation would just ignore this tag if the lobby creator didn't want to use it they just ignore it... see XML is magically deliciouses.SinbadEV has released a new map, <a href="http://www.blah.com/SpeedMetalRacer" class="map">download it here</a>, for more information and screenshots check the <a href="http://spring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/posting ... 1">release thread</a>.
Lobby Announcement Integration
Moderator: Moderators
Satirik, its something you as a lobby developer decide. Protocol and feature design should not be dictated by tasclients implementation. This thread is supposed to be a discussion and if your just going to tell me what I can and cant do and dismiss anything I say then why are you bothering to post here?
There is no need for a class attribute. You can look at the headers of the link, and determine if its a download of a browser page. If its a file download it to a temporary folder and when done hand it over to the archive mover. If its a web page, do whatever the user has specified or is lobby default (This is lobby specific behaviour). No need for anything more complicated than a simple standard html hyper link.
There is no need for a class attribute. You can look at the headers of the link, and determine if its a download of a browser page. If its a file download it to a temporary folder and when done hand it over to the archive mover. If its a web page, do whatever the user has specified or is lobby default (This is lobby specific behaviour). No need for anything more complicated than a simple standard html hyper link.
Why do you need to recieve mod/map/svn link in html anyway?
If its auto discovery (discover mod/map necessary to join game) you dont need any protocol, you query something (UF) and get links.
If its news then user decides what to do with file. If you want to do some automation, you can dl the file and check headers/extension to figure out what is it or use installer for mods/maps currently in development afaik.
If its auto discovery (discover mod/map necessary to join game) you dont need any protocol, you query something (UF) and get links.
If its news then user decides what to do with file. If you want to do some automation, you can dl the file and check headers/extension to figure out what is it or use installer for mods/maps currently in development afaik.
It would be preferable to link to the UF file page anyway as if the user has enough time to read an announcement they'll have the time to look at the odd screen shot and any notes the uploader has left and other things such as the ratings.
Ultimately its the announcement authors decision what the link is and to assume all links are direct links to maps and mod archives is a mistake.
Do not confuse announcements with 'latest files' which we can already pull from #news and UF.
Ultimately its the announcement authors decision what the link is and to assume all links are direct links to maps and mod archives is a mistake.
Do not confuse announcements with 'latest files' which we can already pull from #news and UF.
to steal content ? what or who would hack that ? anyway if you want integrated map/mod download as everybody we'll have to get a direct link to downloadLicho wrote:Protocol cannot give you direct download link. It would be very easy to hack and "steal" content from UF without displaying any ads.
Iamacup should comment on that, but he was against any direct links before.
what the hell are you talking about ... protocol need to include direct download link ... if you don't want that feature i don't care ... nobody use your lobby and you'll implement it that's all, as you did for springmark although you hate it, the integrated download will be implemented anyway in tasclient ... and then in aflobbyAF wrote:Satirik, its something you as a lobby developer decide. Protocol and feature design should not be dictated by tasclients implementation.
@AF (sorry this reply took a while, this was to your initial comment on my suggested use of a "class" property in the link tag)
I think that you are making things too static the way you have described it, I think your saying in the header (aka the properties for the notice) it would say what the notice is for and then any links in the body would be treated as a download of that type (which the protocol of the client would handle as it sees fit). My suggestion would be to specify the type of file the link points to actively so that you could have a link to an information html page or a text file in the same notice as the download.
Maybe your saying the "file-headers"? As in the lobby client should recognize the file type and it's contents and deal with it on it's own terms? I Still think it's best to use a tag property to indicate what type of link you are pointing at as it is still handled by the client but easier to parse, it also has the advantage of having no effect on rendering the body as plain html as the "class" tag is valid.
I think that you are making things too static the way you have described it, I think your saying in the header (aka the properties for the notice) it would say what the notice is for and then any links in the body would be treated as a download of that type (which the protocol of the client would handle as it sees fit). My suggestion would be to specify the type of file the link points to actively so that you could have a link to an information html page or a text file in the same notice as the download.
Maybe your saying the "file-headers"? As in the lobby client should recognize the file type and it's contents and deal with it on it's own terms? I Still think it's best to use a tag property to indicate what type of link you are pointing at as it is still handled by the client but easier to parse, it also has the advantage of having no effect on rendering the body as plain html as the "class" tag is valid.
I don't know if my suggestion was understood, the data could be included in a database of any sort and the "XML" file would be produced when the client (or server) queried this database (probably an HTTP interface), the server would provide the requested information in the form of the XML text string... and the server/client would then provide then parse it to it's own internal formatting. The additional information in the XML header would all the client/sever to decide how, or if the information is displayed.
There could also be a different query to the database that would generate a plain HTML page for the notice item or a feed (Atom/RSS) style request, and possibly the homepage would update itself with an include from the database... an html interface could be set up to add news items to the page and a bot could be set up in the news forum to take things people say to it and convert it to a entry in the database... the interface really doesn't matter for what I'm trying to suggest so I'm not even entirely sure what we ARE supposed to be discussing.
There could also be a different query to the database that would generate a plain HTML page for the notice item or a feed (Atom/RSS) style request, and possibly the homepage would update itself with an include from the database... an html interface could be set up to add news items to the page and a bot could be set up in the news forum to take things people say to it and convert it to a entry in the database... the interface really doesn't matter for what I'm trying to suggest so I'm not even entirely sure what we ARE supposed to be discussing.
Sinbad When opening a http connection given a url if you look at the headers the server returns you can get info about what it is your downloading. This is why that map your downloading isn't showing up as garbled text in your browser, and that web page your opening isnt in a save as dialog. All the information is already there.
Satirik what your saying seems to indicate you dont want announcements at all you just want new content to pop up in a window for the user with a description title and a big download button.
I did not oppose spring mark out of hate. I opposed your banning based upon it. Utilities should be purely informative, that feature was irresponsible. Hence why I show statistics from spring mark in the latest AFLobby builds. They're purely informative and the amount of information shown is limited, and it doesn't take centre stage.
You may be in charge of tasclient now but tasclient is a lobby not the lobby, and at the end of the day any protocol changes are not your decision, not to mention that for the last few months we have finally had viable alternatives to tasclient.
Since your lobby si currently bundled with spring you have responsibilities to the welfare of the lobby community by setting a good example. You've been entrusted with the newcomers of our community on their entry, you give them part of their first impressions.
So developing selfishly for yourself and not the community like you said you were when you first started adding to the svn builds of tasclient is inappropriate now. Your target audience should no longer be yourself, and throwing around threats in order to get your own way rather than compromise and engage in active discussion will not work.
Satirik what your saying seems to indicate you dont want announcements at all you just want new content to pop up in a window for the user with a description title and a big download button.
But worst of all I don't like being flame baited. This thread is about announcements and a way for us to all agree on how they should be implemented. It isn't about tasclient development and feature requests for how we would like you to implement it.what the hell are you talking about ... protocol need to include direct download link ... if you don't want that feature i don't care ... nobody use your lobby and you'll implement it that's all, as you did for springmark although you hate it, the integrated download will be implemented anyway in tasclient ... and then in aflobby
I did not oppose spring mark out of hate. I opposed your banning based upon it. Utilities should be purely informative, that feature was irresponsible. Hence why I show statistics from spring mark in the latest AFLobby builds. They're purely informative and the amount of information shown is limited, and it doesn't take centre stage.
You may be in charge of tasclient now but tasclient is a lobby not the lobby, and at the end of the day any protocol changes are not your decision, not to mention that for the last few months we have finally had viable alternatives to tasclient.
Since your lobby si currently bundled with spring you have responsibilities to the welfare of the lobby community by setting a good example. You've been entrusted with the newcomers of our community on their entry, you give them part of their first impressions.
So developing selfishly for yourself and not the community like you said you were when you first started adding to the svn builds of tasclient is inappropriate now. Your target audience should no longer be yourself, and throwing around threats in order to get your own way rather than compromise and engage in active discussion will not work.
I propose we use RSS 2, and use standard html 4 with no css in the description for formatting, however the RSS format already supplies a set of <link></link> tags for the announcements url.
Users can then choose which RSS feeds they wish to be notified of and lobbies can be notified of an update via a command with the feeds web address, the command being sent via a bot or the server.
This way the lobby can implement it however they wish, standard protocols are used, users can choose what they're notified of and use other programs to see updates such as firefox or other RSS programs or websites such as google. Its also easily extensible as a lobby could allow the user to choose another custom RSS feed.
How links are handled by the lobby is up to the lobby developer to implement. No assumptions are to be made about what the announcement is about, and announcements may be about Tobis set of teddy bears, news from cookieland, or the latest uploads to UF.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rss
Scroll down for an example.
I believe this would serve us best and it doesn't lead to a proliferation of new protocol commands and has minimal load for the server and minimal bandwidth requirements on the lobby connection. Users who don't want notifications thus aren't affected any real extent. The setup would also allow much more feature proliferation in lobby development/innovation and it would be easier to maintain as there's already a large software base for creating and running RSS feeds.
Users can then choose which RSS feeds they wish to be notified of and lobbies can be notified of an update via a command with the feeds web address, the command being sent via a bot or the server.
This way the lobby can implement it however they wish, standard protocols are used, users can choose what they're notified of and use other programs to see updates such as firefox or other RSS programs or websites such as google. Its also easily extensible as a lobby could allow the user to choose another custom RSS feed.
How links are handled by the lobby is up to the lobby developer to implement. No assumptions are to be made about what the announcement is about, and announcements may be about Tobis set of teddy bears, news from cookieland, or the latest uploads to UF.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rss
Scroll down for an example.
I believe this would serve us best and it doesn't lead to a proliferation of new protocol commands and has minimal load for the server and minimal bandwidth requirements on the lobby connection. Users who don't want notifications thus aren't affected any real extent. The setup would also allow much more feature proliferation in lobby development/innovation and it would be easier to maintain as there's already a large software base for creating and running RSS feeds.
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BrainDamage
- Lobby Developer
- Posts: 1164
- Joined: 25 Sep 2006, 13:56
I was actually going to suggest RSS or ATOM but I felt it misses some things that would really give the whole this some "pizazz"... I find RSS to be a little to plain for my taste... I don't want much more then floated-images, font-colors, bold, italics, underlines etc... enh... I'd be happy with RSS2 but would like to see some extra "optional" functions implemented.
I agree with RSS too, I would monitor it from my normal rss readers..
Satirik - regarding "content stealing" - what I meant is called leeching.
Basically a practice to post direct download links instead instead of links which also show ads. It means lost revenue for original provider and adds revenue for leecher,
Thats why you cannot get direct download links from huge systems like fileplanet.
Satirik - regarding "content stealing" - what I meant is called leeching.
Basically a practice to post direct download links instead instead of links which also show ads. It means lost revenue for original provider and adds revenue for leecher,
Thats why you cannot get direct download links from huge systems like fileplanet.
im not retarded but who will do that ? nobody ... so it's just stupid and everybody (even iamacup) wants an integrated map/mod download (with ad) so it will be integrated, the anouncement is not the community news its just for the lobby and for nothing else (look the thread title) anyway a RSS could be generated from the anouncementsLicho wrote:I agree with RSS too, I would monitor it from my normal rss readers..
Satirik - regarding "content stealing" - what I meant is called leeching.
Basically a practice to post direct download links instead instead of links which also show ads. It means lost revenue for original provider and adds revenue for leecher,
Thats why you cannot get direct download links from huge systems like fileplanet.
Satirik we're well aware that this is not community news. Community news was just an example of a possible announcement.
However what your talking about doesn't seem to be what we're talking about or even fit into the umbrella of announcements.
What it seems that you want from what I can see is a list of the latest releases with big download buttons. As new releases are made the user is notified and can click a big download button and have it all auto-installed nice and tidy.
And satirik, when we tlk about integrated downloading, what we mean is:
"oh noes I cant join that battle I dont have the mod, oh look its asking if I want to download and install the mod, wow its done all the work for me and now I can join!"
As you can see announcements have nothing to do with it.
Also, assuming that all links are direct links to content has technical flaws.
Flaw number 1:
UF uses a mirror system to balance things but your proposal would require a direct link bypassing this and putting all the load on a single server.
Flaw number 2:
Not all authors provide content are mods and maps, some have dependencies, which means a direct download will not work.
Flaw number 3:
I may have extra instructions I want the downloaders to follow when downloading my file, and I may have warnings too.
Flaw number 4:
A user may want to look at reviews, comments, pictures etc in depth. They may want to take their time to look at what theyre downloading or see related downloads.
Flaw number 5:
Non download related content messages such as "Uninstall QA 99.2 it has a major bug! Downgrade to v98 or your PC will blow up!! URGENT!!", or "The ladder has sprouted tentacles and is attacking the lobby server, we'll be down for a few hours next week" or even "user 29834728934 is testing uber mod and needs beta testers, send a message here to apply"
Flaw number 6:
A direct download link isnt always possible to provide, and it may not link to UF at all.
So satirik, please make it clear exactly what you wanted. Its clearly not announcements because that would be too generic a description. Right now your just confusing people and possibly causing offence.
However what your talking about doesn't seem to be what we're talking about or even fit into the umbrella of announcements.
What it seems that you want from what I can see is a list of the latest releases with big download buttons. As new releases are made the user is notified and can click a big download button and have it all auto-installed nice and tidy.
And satirik, when we tlk about integrated downloading, what we mean is:
"oh noes I cant join that battle I dont have the mod, oh look its asking if I want to download and install the mod, wow its done all the work for me and now I can join!"
As you can see announcements have nothing to do with it.
Also, assuming that all links are direct links to content has technical flaws.
Flaw number 1:
UF uses a mirror system to balance things but your proposal would require a direct link bypassing this and putting all the load on a single server.
Flaw number 2:
Not all authors provide content are mods and maps, some have dependencies, which means a direct download will not work.
Flaw number 3:
I may have extra instructions I want the downloaders to follow when downloading my file, and I may have warnings too.
Flaw number 4:
A user may want to look at reviews, comments, pictures etc in depth. They may want to take their time to look at what theyre downloading or see related downloads.
Flaw number 5:
Non download related content messages such as "Uninstall QA 99.2 it has a major bug! Downgrade to v98 or your PC will blow up!! URGENT!!", or "The ladder has sprouted tentacles and is attacking the lobby server, we'll be down for a few hours next week" or even "user 29834728934 is testing uber mod and needs beta testers, send a message here to apply"
Flaw number 6:
A direct download link isnt always possible to provide, and it may not link to UF at all.
So satirik, please make it clear exactly what you wanted. Its clearly not announcements because that would be too generic a description. Right now your just confusing people and possibly causing offence.
What it seems that you want from what I can see is a list of the latest releases with big download buttons
i want the possibility to add a one click install for anything spring needs and you conclude it's just a download thing ?
ok actually just tell what you would like (features) and not what you would not like
- mods want a way to communicate with players (and they want the players to read it so the anouncement design and display have to be controled by the one who post the anouncement, ofc he can allow the lobby to decide the way to display it)
- ladder admins want a way to organize special events
- devs want help to test the latest spring version
- mod/maps makers want a way to advertise their work
- players want to not be spammed by tons of anouncements (so the anouncement have to get different display options popup scollers etc)
- players want to be able to read the anouncement via RSS feed ?
what else ?
you have to discuss the protocol(xml should be the best) and the details of each features nothing else