I need a new way of mining.
I am currently investing a small amount of time into thinking of what ways I can dictate the amount of metal ingame at all times. Where metal patches are either irrelevant, or strategic goldmines.
I have one idea, that Chrispin brought up because of someone saying that the economy was a bit lame (it is, but remember from my previous postings, I am the modder, thus, I want to dictate each and every variable I can, maps are not in that grouping though, but metal is.)
That idea is to have a main drilling center, which can only function/build while on a metal position. When it can build units, it will build the facilities that actually mine the metal, and you can only build 3 or 4 due to size limitations. Limitied actual mining only to areas of actual value.
If this is possible, I would like to implement it, and most likely would need some help >___>
Mining!
Moderator: Moderators
I dont understand the objective here. You want a factory/constructor that only functions when on a mex, and then builds 3-4 metal producing structures each?
Why this approach? Is it to limit the amount of metal you get out of a metal spot? Well, the number of metal spots will still vary across a map... and with a large extractor radius you could probably sit several of these on one metal spot.
If you want reliable control over a territorial resource, i think the only way to do it would be to make your own maps specifically for the mod (IE, KP- geos are good for this) or to lua it.
Why this approach? Is it to limit the amount of metal you get out of a metal spot? Well, the number of metal spots will still vary across a map... and with a large extractor radius you could probably sit several of these on one metal spot.
If you want reliable control over a territorial resource, i think the only way to do it would be to make your own maps specifically for the mod (IE, KP- geos are good for this) or to lua it.
I want metal patches to have a use, but I don't want the balance to be fuxxed up by maps such as speedmetal. I love how people should fight over them, but I want static values. I like the map's strategy, generally metal positions are placed well. The metal values are to my distaste, however.
Yes, but the building which builds the others won't extract at all, or if it must, it will be very minimal.Is it to limit the amount of metal you get out of a metal spot?
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Pressure Line
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SwiftSpear
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
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Most good maps have decent, reasonable metal amounts that all stick around an average. Cases like speedmetal are an abberation- as has been said, if people wanted to play a game with reasonable metal amounts they wouldnt play speedmetal. Even then, you would need lua, as these 'only functions on metal spots' constructors could be built all over the map anyway.
Even if you limit the metal amount per spot you are still going to get a huge variation in the number of metal spots on the map.
I think there is a case to be made though for taking the economy out of the hands of mappers, though not to 'fix' maps with a broken metal economy so much as to have perfect control over the mod balance, or even just randomizing the placement of territorial resources purely for the sake of having every game play differently. So really, lua is the only way to go.
Even if you limit the metal amount per spot you are still going to get a huge variation in the number of metal spots on the map.
I think there is a case to be made though for taking the economy out of the hands of mappers, though not to 'fix' maps with a broken metal economy so much as to have perfect control over the mod balance, or even just randomizing the placement of territorial resources purely for the sake of having every game play differently. So really, lua is the only way to go.
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Warlord Zsinj
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I'd have to disagree there, Saktoth, and say that one of the biggest strengths of the Spring set up is that map making is effectively 'out-sourced' from content-developers to map-makers.
Unless I need a specific map type (FF, KP), I can develop content for spring, release, and have hundreds of maps (and many of them really excellent works) for my mod to play on, without having to actually make a single map.
Sure, it means I have to doctor my resourcing scheme to suit the more 'metal heavy' nature of Spring maps (compared to TA maps of similar size), but that's a small price to pay for allowing any interested users a wealth of different maps to play on.
Unless I need a specific map type (FF, KP), I can develop content for spring, release, and have hundreds of maps (and many of them really excellent works) for my mod to play on, without having to actually make a single map.
Sure, it means I have to doctor my resourcing scheme to suit the more 'metal heavy' nature of Spring maps (compared to TA maps of similar size), but that's a small price to pay for allowing any interested users a wealth of different maps to play on.
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Felix the Cat
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Thing is, with increasing variety of mods that use metal and energy (and other resources!) in different ways, different sorts of maps and metal distributions are needed.
For example, S44 originally intended to use metal spots as key control points, with only maybe 6-10 on a map, as opposed to the typical "3 to start, 5 easy to get, 3 close to the center, 10 in the center, same distribution for other 5 players" map we see in Spring.
I think we've moved on past that to a structure that allows play on "normal" maps. However, we have to keep in mind that different mods will interpret the territorial-resource and the time-generated-resource differently from TA's traditional "metal" and "energy".
For example, S44 originally intended to use metal spots as key control points, with only maybe 6-10 on a map, as opposed to the typical "3 to start, 5 easy to get, 3 close to the center, 10 in the center, same distribution for other 5 players" map we see in Spring.
I think we've moved on past that to a structure that allows play on "normal" maps. However, we have to keep in mind that different mods will interpret the territorial-resource and the time-generated-resource differently from TA's traditional "metal" and "energy".
In not talking here about taking mapping out of the hands of mappers. Im talking about taking the economic balance out of their hands- which is really a mod related issue. Mod balance depends heavily on the amount of metal entering the economy.Warlord Zsinj wrote:I'd have to disagree there, Saktoth.
With a lua resource setup, not using metal extractors at all, but rather randomly spawning resources across the map (either for reclamation or a lua re-creation of the extractor) would allow any map to be played using the mods intended, ideal resource structure.
Some maps have a very specific metal placement to create a certain flow or conflict zones- but 90% of maps have the metal scattered evenly across it. Randomizing this placement would increase the replayability of maps and make them less predictable.
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Warlord Zsinj
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I'm not a map maker, but I'd argue that a decent map maker puts plenty of thought into the distribution of resources on his map, and that someone who just puts them randomly around isn't a good map maker, just as someone who cannot make a good looking texture or a good heightmap is a poor map maker.
The two are inseperable, I think. If a map maker designs a certain heightmap, there is a resource pattern which he is going to design to suit that design, to craft the flow of battle in certain areas, to make other areas less important, to create risk, to give certain starting positions different starts, etc, etc. It's a really important part of map making, and something which I think a lot of thought goes into - and not something which a randomised pattern can replicate in anyway except luck.
Which is not to take away from Zpock's script, which is still excellent. And could still potentially be controlled by mappers by having C&C style 'tiberium trees' (asteroid trees?
) which will continually spawn resources in specific areas.
The two are inseperable, I think. If a map maker designs a certain heightmap, there is a resource pattern which he is going to design to suit that design, to craft the flow of battle in certain areas, to make other areas less important, to create risk, to give certain starting positions different starts, etc, etc. It's a really important part of map making, and something which I think a lot of thought goes into - and not something which a randomised pattern can replicate in anyway except luck.
Which is not to take away from Zpock's script, which is still excellent. And could still potentially be controlled by mappers by having C&C style 'tiberium trees' (asteroid trees?
) which will continually spawn resources in specific areas.
Yeah I'm considering wheter to put the spawning of resources in my new spacemod in luagaia or whaterver it's called within the map instead of directly in the mods LUA.
I think the best solution that I will implement if I can is to have the mod spawn resources but an override for maps to spawn their own if they want.
I also have some ideas for more then just randomly scattered resources across the map. Such as actual pockets of resources reiteratively placed on the map at random but suitable position and angle to the players.
I think the best solution that I will implement if I can is to have the mod spawn resources but an override for maps to spawn their own if they want.
I also have some ideas for more then just randomly scattered resources across the map. Such as actual pockets of resources reiteratively placed on the map at random but suitable position and angle to the players.