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tombom · Post by **tombom** » 28 Sep 2007, 09:27

Warlord Zsinj wrote:Dare I say that there is a perfect example going on right this moment that could and should be dealt with by moderators?

I certainly wait eagerly to see what will happen now that these long-whinded morals can be put to the test. A pat on the wrist?

... Or does a repeat offender deserve worse?

I can't read that thread very easy because it appears half has been deleted and warned, which would appear to be the appropriate action.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 28 Sep 2007, 09:33

tombom wrote:
Warlord Zsinj wrote:Dare I say that there is a perfect example going on right this moment that could and should be dealt with by moderators?

I certainly wait eagerly to see what will happen now that these long-whinded morals can be put to the test. A pat on the wrist?

... Or does a repeat offender deserve worse?
I can't read that thread very easy because it appears half has been deleted and warned, which would appear to be the appropriate action.

My work, and I apologize for any offense caused.

AF · Post by AF » 28 Sep 2007, 11:37

One example I can think of is me and Vista.

I have made my opinion of Vista clear and I think its alright. I'm not a fanboy because I'm aware it has its problems, and I would not reccomend that anybody buy it unless its free or extremely cheap on offer($10 or less),

Yet despite this I have been attacked over it. My attempts to report this are dismissed out of hand as me having a thin skin or the trollers attempting to start discussion through tactless means.

What a load of nonsense.

Please explain why they seem to follow me and only me with this.

Explain why they're starting the same discussion over and over again?(duh it is not a discussion they're trying to start)

Explain why they mention it in threads that I haven't even posted in or doesn't have any prior mentions of Vista?

So basically if the victim is deemed as thin skinned or paranoid then the attacker has immunity.

If the problem can be fobbed off as an attempt to start discussion then that si what will happen.

Did I mention that the people with the Vista stuff seem to be the same people every single time?

What about stealth trolling via the edit button? Basically its OK to troll as long as you edit the post once the victim has seen it so it cant be reported. I reported caydr for doing this but because he edited the post his bad behaviour was overlooked. Apparently if you hide bad behaviour from a moderator after you've done it it never happened even if the moderators become aware of it,

This is not about strengthening forum rules.

Our rules are not being enforced, and moderators are letting trolls get away with murder through loopholes. They're failing to address the biggest problems, and the community regularly takes any discussion fo this and turns it into the usual "should we have Nazi moderators or cuddly bears? Are forum goers just thin skinned?" which derails the process completely.

And no this is not something that the forum as a whole is subject to. This is a small group who have persistently done this for years. They've been operating in the same way for years. They've used the same methods and patterns tog et the same results for years. And they've always derailed these sorts of threads by switching the topic for years. Moderation has ignored them for years, They fail to acknowledge the pattern that generates 80% of all moderatable offenses. The cycles that cause 90% of all e-drama within the spring community.

clericvash · Post by **clericvash** » 28 Sep 2007, 12:01

As far as i am aware someone disabled posts showing if a post has been edited too.

test

Tobi · Post by **Tobi** » 28 Sep 2007, 12:09

No that works fine, at least for me:

Last edited by Tobi on Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

Note that it doesn't count as editing if it is the last post in the thread.

clericvash · Post by **clericvash** » 28 Sep 2007, 12:23

So it does, well seems moderators seem to actually take that into account when someone complains about a post, seems they are not.

We need more moderation, and i will keep saying it.

Ishach · Post by **Ishach** » 28 Sep 2007, 12:33

I'm going to be the voice of reason here-

What really needs to be done on these forums is to ban every user. As long as people are posting here this problem is not going to get any better, and even worse, as spring gets more popular the problem will only get worse and worse.

clericvash · Post by **clericvash** » 28 Sep 2007, 12:47

Not if moderators start actually doing there job.

Camilo Cienfuegos · Post by **Camilo Cienfuegos** » 28 Sep 2007, 15:27

The phrase that comes to mind is:

"The IQ of a group is the square root of the average of it's members"

A healthy dose of the carrot and the stick, some common sense moderating (Think educational establishments - an ideal would be one moderator for every twenty users, and when you're getting to one to fifty you're in trouble) and it'll all be right as rain.

Good luck. This forum isn't nearly as bad as some I can mention, so I'm sure with a little work it'll be spiffy.

Felix the Cat · Post by **Felix the Cat** » 28 Sep 2007, 18:58

AF wrote:blah blah blah

This is exactly why we CANNOT allow one hyper-sensitive person to dictate our forum policies.

If AF had his way, everyone who posted in disagreement with him would be labeled "troll" and banhammered.

Sleksa · Post by **Sleksa** » 28 Sep 2007, 22:24

Felix the Cat wrote:
AF wrote:blah blah blah
This is exactly why we CANNOT allow one hyper-sensitive person to dictate our forum policies.

If AF had his way, everyone who posted in disagreement with him would be labeled "troll" and banhammered.

I agree with the latter one. There are many people who'd just like to see others banned from the forums.

What people really should do is to look up the meaning of forum ~_~

Tired · Post by **Tired** » 29 Sep 2007, 00:15

"Troll and Troll by is he that setteth naught by no man, nor no man by him. This is he that would bear rule in a place and hath no authority nor thanks, and at last is thrust out of the door like a knave."

Neuralize · Post by **Neuralize** » 29 Sep 2007, 04:06

Really, the problem is that the posts we're writing need to have a character limit. As it currently is, the person with the most time on their hands is the one that wins/resurrects/fuels an argument. A lot of people make extremely large posts on this forum that consist of absolutely nothing.

If you need to inform people in an article-like fashion, then write it in the wiki. However, giant ass diatribes and speeches do little good besides show that you're opinions are strong and that you don't take the criticism of other's well.

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 29 Sep 2007, 05:17

I think a character limit puts a hard limit on the assumed intelligence of posters here, which is a really big shame. It also assumes that all information can be gotten across in small bites of information, which I disagree with.

That being said, I know exactly what you mean about the long whinded diatribes that mean absolutely nothing and could be summed up far more simply. I'm pretty sure I've done a few in my time

.

LordMatt · Post by **LordMatt** » 29 Sep 2007, 15:03

I'd like to mention that I've never hit the character limit in here and don't read long posts anyways.

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 30 Sep 2007, 00:17

AF wrote:Our rules are not being enforced, and moderators are letting trolls get away with murder through loopholes.

No, no we're not. Editing an inappropriate post is not stealth trolling, it's not exploiting a loophole in forum rules, it's realizing something you said is inappropriate and fixing it before a moderator has to do it for you. I still warned caydr during that discussion, but FFS, I'm not going to ban him for rescinding an inappropriate statement, especially considering that that thread was his first offense, and you have a LONG history of taking offense to EVERYTHING.

There ARE no loopholes. I ban people who I see posting with malicious intent, and I warn people who I see doing inappropriate things unintentionally. It really doesn't take much time to evaluate which is which.

AF · Post by AF » 30 Sep 2007, 12:40

An analogy!!!

Imagine a big big field with people on it.

People rise and dip like baloons with them getting higher as they troll, and theres a big cloud in the sky with moderators and big lightning rods to strike anyone who rises past a big red line.

In theory this seems ok, no loopholes.. err...

What the moderators on the cloud don't realize is the trolls have learnt that crossing the red line doesn't work the way they like it. So they're taking non trolls and swinging them around like catapults and flinging them above the line so they can watch moderators strike them down.

However all moderator discussion seems to ignore this cycle and instead pretend that what I actually mean is that people are getting above the red line in stealth aircraft or the red line should be lowered. Nonsense! I'm not asking for stricter rules! I'm asking for an end to the repetitive cycle that has been the driving force behind the vast majority fo trollign and e-drama in this community since it began.

At the very least I'm asking that the cycle is acknowledged by a moderator even if they cant do anything about it, rather than replacing any mention of it with a demand for stricter rules or Nazi moderation.

Felix the Cat · Post by **Felix the Cat** » 30 Sep 2007, 18:25

AF wrote:blah blah blah

Care to provide any sort of tangible proof for your wild assertion that sounds like it was inspired during an acid trip?

tombom · Post by **tombom** » 30 Sep 2007, 18:32

Felix the Cat wrote:
AF wrote:blah blah blah
Care to provide any sort of tangible proof for your wild assertion that sounds like it was inspired during an acid trip?

It's an AF analogy, it doesn't need to make sense.

clericvash · Post by **clericvash** » 30 Sep 2007, 19:01

Heres the exact kind of post that pisses me off:
http://spring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=12140

Look for "Satirik" post.

What the hell, there was no need to even post in there, that id the wank that needs moderation. I'm so fedup of this forum.

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