Balanced Annihilation 5.71
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Didnt one of them do this once in some famous game? Both andy and day actually favour kbot maps heavily, due to their insane clicks per minute. They have no problem keeping up with the micro required on rocko/storm and still pwning your face. I dont think you'll ever see day go vech on Small Divide, he likes his stormspam too much.kbots have a huge potential when given to a good player?id like to see andy play day on cc and one of them going kbots...wont happen!!!
CC will always be a vech map. Its too large, too open, too flat, and has too much metal. If you want CC to have a kbot-viable start, i think you're barking up the wrong tree, it would require the sort of changes BA is never going to have.
I think a lot of it is actually map choice. Maps like Altored for example are prettymuch completely flat, and very large, except for a few spots you need a com or kbot con or amphib con to mex (using amphib vech player can do this easy). Yet people still sometimes (sucessfully, even) play kbot on it. On the sandy flat parts of DSD, SSBD, Tabula, Dead Reef Dry and a host of other maps are obviously vech-friendly.
Honestly i am not a fan of the 'kbot map/vech map' dynamic as in all too many cases its not really a choice but a mandate required by the terrain- but i think some of the blame lays on map choice and design.
Also, DZHIBRISH, its better to edit your posts than to double post. Read what everyone has to say and respond in one post, it keeps things cleaner and stops the thread going into too many pages.
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
I agree with sak. I'm not a fan of the "kbot map/vech map" thing at all. I'd remove the difference between kbot and vech movement classes and balance them accordingly if it were up to me in BA.
Last edited by SwiftSpear on 14 Sep 2007, 07:35, edited 1 time in total.
Re: oh.so let me get this straight.
DZHIBRISH wrote:kbots have a huge potential when given to a good player?id like to see andy play day on cc and one of them going kbots...wont happen!!!
cause its phail.Sure you can always try to play with underpowered units but not if you want to win!fact is no matter what level the player kbots are used rarely casue vehicles are superior and are more usefull and it doesnt matter why...kbots need more micro?so when u have that skill kbots suddenly become way better than vehicles and you start owning everyone with kbots?not!2 similar players one kbots other vehicle on a map that "noobs" play with vehicles on will try and use all their micro skillz...so while the kbot player will have to invest his clicks and commands on further microing his kbots the vehicle player wont have to over micro his vehicles and can concentrate more on other stuff....and vehicles can be miccroed as well you just need to have more skill that some noobs dont have
just because you cant do it doesnt mean nobody can do it.
i already asked you if you want to make kbots viable on cc or what are you after, and judging by your post you really want that to happen.
this is correct. CC will always be a veh map, altho there are replays where people beat veh players by surprise bot spamCC will always be a vech map. Its too large, too open, too flat, and has too much metal. If you want CC to have a kbot-viable start, i think you're barking up the wrong tree, it would require the sort of changes BA is never going to have.
its rare, but doesnt mean things like these dont happen.this is true in case of maps where there are only a few points of interests up in the hills. Maps with lots of hills(craters) like moonq20 are pretty obvious kbot choice maps. Sure, you can go vehicle and still be able to win, but i think its a lot harder to restrict yourself into a an area of ~40% of the map compared to the ~100% of the kbot.aps like Altored for example are prettymuch completely flat, and very large, except for a few spots you need a com or kbot con or amphib con to mex (using amphib vech player can do this easy). Yet people still sometimes (sucessfully, even) play kbot on it. On the sandy flat parts of DSD, SSBD, Tabula, Dead Reef Dry and a host of other maps are obviously vech-friendly.
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Machiosabre
- Posts: 1474
- Joined: 25 Dec 2005, 22:56
before you guys move on to the next thing to write page long posts about, go talk about hammers, they've been pushed to the sidelines a lot especially since the "no extra range from being on high ground" thing.
I was thinking maybe they could have really high mass so they wouldn't be affected as much by janus/levs and guardians as much as other kbots.
I was thinking maybe they could have really high mass so they wouldn't be affected as much by janus/levs and guardians as much as other kbots.
Ive always been a core player and while to some extent i like what has been done with the sumo, the sane part of me tells me something is wrong with sumo, its too good of a bang for too little of a buck. Either pump up the cost or lower the hp or range, but dont make it a piece of walking metal again.
I try
Whats wit hthe dumb comments?seriously.did i say i want cc to have a kbot start!!!?????no...i didnt....i sai the oposite..i was just trying to make a point cause some popel said the with the porper micro you can unleash some hidden kbot potential and win vehicles..
I say it again...kbots are not usefull enough....YOu can move up to the next topic of discussion but it wont change..fact is kbots get used less and vehicles rule flat maps while its still possible to play vehicles on many hilly maps...i say add a certin x% to all kbot hp ....thus they will be slower but more powerfull than vehicles.. with the higher dps and an increase in hp (im not saying a big one im sayng a balanced one) they might become equal in use to vehicles.
Gertkane.
Its not only sumo...its snipers as well..what you get,actially,is that in the phase of the game where u have defences put up on mostly defined front lines,are arm snipers or core sumos..it looks that it was done cause of the
disadvantage kbots have even on t2 ...their speed and low hp make them less effective than t2 vehicles.Snipers,behind defences can wreck havok and own th enemy's defensive lines and t2 vehicles..sumos? the same.. and some will say that a sniper for example is very expensive.. but they forget that usually to kill a few snipers hiding behond a few defences is extremly difficult and you will lose more metal on storming those places with your t2 frontal attack forces.
Another issue,t2 rocket launching units dont get used.. instead people use t2 artillery cause its much more effective...with t2 walls you could block t2 arty and than your enemy would have to use rocket launching units but building t2 walls is so complicated and demanding.. and takes much time that the need for rocket launching units disapears ALMOST completly.they shoot slowly and are much less accurate vs moving targets than t2 arty.. arty shoots to the same distance much faster ......and costs much less!!! plz either increase arty costs drasticlly or make t2 rocket launchers shoot much faster or make a lot more splash dmg.plus u can build so many arty2 units instead of a tremor.. its rediculeous.. a few t2 arty would be much more usefull than a tremore cost wise.. they can run from attacks better and if u lose one u still have a few others unliek th tremor that dies v fast and can hardly move.. plus shoots with a high traj...i say nerf t2 arty..
I say it again...kbots are not usefull enough....YOu can move up to the next topic of discussion but it wont change..fact is kbots get used less and vehicles rule flat maps while its still possible to play vehicles on many hilly maps...i say add a certin x% to all kbot hp ....thus they will be slower but more powerfull than vehicles.. with the higher dps and an increase in hp (im not saying a big one im sayng a balanced one) they might become equal in use to vehicles.
Gertkane.
Its not only sumo...its snipers as well..what you get,actially,is that in the phase of the game where u have defences put up on mostly defined front lines,are arm snipers or core sumos..it looks that it was done cause of the
disadvantage kbots have even on t2 ...their speed and low hp make them less effective than t2 vehicles.Snipers,behind defences can wreck havok and own th enemy's defensive lines and t2 vehicles..sumos? the same.. and some will say that a sniper for example is very expensive.. but they forget that usually to kill a few snipers hiding behond a few defences is extremly difficult and you will lose more metal on storming those places with your t2 frontal attack forces.
Another issue,t2 rocket launching units dont get used.. instead people use t2 artillery cause its much more effective...with t2 walls you could block t2 arty and than your enemy would have to use rocket launching units but building t2 walls is so complicated and demanding.. and takes much time that the need for rocket launching units disapears ALMOST completly.they shoot slowly and are much less accurate vs moving targets than t2 arty.. arty shoots to the same distance much faster ......and costs much less!!! plz either increase arty costs drasticlly or make t2 rocket launchers shoot much faster or make a lot more splash dmg.plus u can build so many arty2 units instead of a tremor.. its rediculeous.. a few t2 arty would be much more usefull than a tremore cost wise.. they can run from attacks better and if u lose one u still have a few others unliek th tremor that dies v fast and can hardly move.. plus shoots with a high traj...i say nerf t2 arty..
Last edited by DZHIBRISH on 14 Sep 2007, 16:17, edited 1 time in total.
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CautionToTheWind
- Posts: 272
- Joined: 30 May 2006, 17:06
i suggest
sniper should be nerfd just a little bit and than tested to se how it does and sumo should be nerfed as well or better yet made more expensive,to what extent thats up to noize i guess..... t2 arty should be much more expensive trmor should be less expensive..fatboty is actually pertty balanced id say..people just dont use it cause its not cool :)has an ugly model...ofcourse vs snipers he stand no chance.. expecially cause u can build about 3 snipers with the metal you need to build a fatboy.. of course snipers need energy.
Iemphesize te arty again..costs about 300 metal shoots straight and pretty fast..tremor costs 2300 metal.. shoots high trajectory.....judt dont make long range units better ..instead nerf t2 arty.. better to have a not so good arsenal of long range weapons than an oped one..
Iemphesize te arty again..costs about 300 metal shoots straight and pretty fast..tremor costs 2300 metal.. shoots high trajectory.....judt dont make long range units better ..instead nerf t2 arty.. better to have a not so good arsenal of long range weapons than an oped one..
Flop dont be an ass
you know thats a bad example.kbots and vehiclews are 2 types of forces that both operate on land and have similair roles.Dont be so blunt.