Stats - The 100th mass promotion topic thingy

[RavingManiac]

Assuming that we manage to make Spring user-friendly, causing an influx of new players, the large number of newbies will cause despicable tactics like combomb, comnap and hover spam to be used in almost every game, potentially crippling all that the community has worked for. Current TA-based mods may need an overhaul to prevent this from happening.

[KDR_11k]

Or it'll lead to some quick training sessions in defense against those...

[Licho]

I agree with game UI argument. Imo lua should be enabled by default along with some most usefull widgets/UI tweaks (no I don't mean eyes).

[AF]

licho, what I suggested does handle the multiple sdz issue. AKA package several sdz and sd7 files together in 1 archive that has the same dir structure as needed.

The modinfo.tdf would come with a tag saying that its meant to be extracted over the spring folder, a version number, a package ID representing what it is, and the packageIDs of any dependencies. And perhaps a manifest of what it contains.

Thats all that's needed for a basic packaging system.

Its also a far more realistic goal in the short and long terms and relies on infrastructure thats already in place, aka archive mover.

Also, putting it inside .zip files without renaming to sdz or sd7 would confuse people. Do I open it with the archive mover or winrar?

[Licho]

It woudlnt confuse people.

People wont come into contact with those files.
And if they do they would simply extract it into spring folder.

I imagine package could contain not just mod files but widgets and their related stuff like bitmaps, sounds etc.

Of course it's medium term goal but server side infrastructure and tool for creating packages could be created relatively quickly (say 5MD tool, 5-15MD central database and web backend depending on features implemented).
Lobby integration changes probably need most time (due to slow development there), but even without full integration in place some web nexus with all resources would be very usefull..

I'm a bit overwhelmed by work atm. I'm going to have free time after 2.5 months after I complete some of my current contracts.

[Licho]

What I said does not contradict what you propose. "Resources" could be packed in sdz and use modinfo.tdf instead of some manifest.

In fact having separate infrastructure for installing and checking dependencies in archive mover is probably better than integrating this directly into every lobby.

[Erom]

1) make load and save work
2) someone make a bloody campaign and some propper AI

this is all we need for a larger player base.

Pretty much it. Whenever I've seen people see Spring they generally tend to react "Oh man this looks cool. Where's singleplayer?".

Nailed it. I have a group of friends I LAN *craft with occasionally, and all of them were like "No campaign? Eh. So they aren't really done with much yet, then?"

As many people as play games competitively online play games to metagame themselves against the game designers.

[AF]

The last major download to use zip packaging for stuff like that was AA, and most new users were baffled by the installation process because it was a zip file and they didnt see how it was meant to be installed.

As a result 10 to 20 users would have to be told how to install AA each day in #main, and it continued until BA took over, since BA is one single archive and it was much easier to install as a result.

[nemppu]

The trend in the last few months has been a slow downward gradient. Our lobby userbase is slowly getting smaller.

yes this is becuse sleksa is not mod(

[RavingManiac]

I think a new, user-friendly client is all we need to make Spring be recognized as the great RTS it is. The only problem is that no one has an idea how to make one .

[BrainDamage]

already working on that

SpringLobby Homepage

SpringLobby Screenshots

download, try, report bugs, suggest improvements

contributors are welcome!

also don't forget to check the roadmap

[jcnossen]

Licho, I´m working on a package system that is pretty much what you describe...

- A database seperate from UFs with information about dependencies, versions, mirrors, etc

- A dll with C API that can be used to query package information and download packages (and show a banner while downloading).

- Installation of the packages can be done by the system depending on whether it is an sub package that belongs to an already installed application, or an installer package...

- I want to do dependency checking by having a list of dependency package ID´s each with a version mask like (1.2.*). This would allow specifying incompatibilities in a flexible enough way I think.

If you want to help in 2.5 months let me know, however I do intend to keep it closed source because of the integrated ads and possible commercial usage.

[AF]

Keeping it closed source would be problematic due to license issues.

Also advertising is not an excuse as I can guarantee if it goes anywhere somebody will pull a cracked version out of a hat or from up a sleeve.

[iamacup]

Keeping it closed source would be problematic due to license issues.

Also advertising is not an excuse as I can guarantee if it goes anywhere somebody will pull a cracked version out of a hat or from up a sleeve.

its not using spring source code, and is ment to be scaled up to something much larger than the scope of spring files.

[imbaczek]

...like the blizzard downloader, which is bittorrent with a wow banner? something bigger lies pretty much only in that direction, with constantly connected mirror peers. anything else is so 20th century.

[Sheekel]

Some new screenshots would be good, get rid of that nanoblobs shot. Argh, its a good mod with lots of cool effects and such, but its the most fuzzy, hairy-looking nuke i've ever seen...

[Felix the Cat]

And always including a TA mod with the installer is damaging, almost as much as always including the same content.

Users don't get the feel that content is moving forward or that new content is being generated. All they see is XTA and BA/AA. So what if we added new sfx and swapped out a few models fixed a units balance, its all the same to them.

I don't think users want to feel that content is moving forward or that new content is being generated, they want to feel that the current content is awesome and makes them want to play the game.

I can't think of a single commercial game which people bought because new content was being generated. The closest I can get is Half-Life, which I personally bought because of the mods (never played the game itself). People buy games because the games are cool out of the box, generally. I don't see why Spring would be different.

You need to look at the game from the point of view of a player, rather than from the point of view of a developer or coder or Spring veteran.

[RavingManiac]

Once again, I have compiled a to-do list:
1. Single-player client with tutorial and also with RAI as default bot.
2. A multi-player client which automatically downloads required maps and/or mods straight into the Spring folder.
3. Elimination of combomb/comnap and other despicable tactics that could repel newbie players.
4. Putting everything into a nice, neat package that can be accessed from the main Spring site.
5.Spread the good word .

[AF]

felix, that is not what Im saying at all

1) user finds the spring site for the first time
2) They somehow manage to figure out howto play spring
3) They like ti and stay for a week or two, then get tired fo ti or go off playign other games

A few weeks later they come back and see nothing has changed save a few graphical updates and balance changes.

They come back a few months later and find only graphical and balance changes.

They come back a year later and find the same again only maybe the most popular mod has had its abbrieviation letters incremented a little.

For us we see the changes as much bigger because we play the games day in day out. But for the people who dont live and rbeathe spring not much changes here and its a turn off.

So maybe your right for that first time but the same content wont keep players coming back like that, not unless we manage to get a paid production team in for a few months. Theres simply not enough variety/options for people here to keep as many grounded here as we could have.

Its all XTA and AA with the odd cosmetic changes and a few tweaks here and there to the outside world and it gets tiring after a few weeks.

And XTA and AA based mods are too similair anyway. Same units same sort of roles. Fine there may be fundamental balancing differences and units each has the other hasnt but its still very similar. BA and XTA player play it day in day out though so they dont see it that way.

Its also damaging to springs credibility as a game engine.

[Felix the Cat]

LOL, AF... you said that that wasn't what you were saying, but it was exactly what you were saying.

Think about StarCraft. There was precisely one new content release. People still play SC to this day. Obviously having OMG ALL NEW CONTENTS!!!1!11!!!1~ every two weeks is not necessary to have a successful RTS. I'd say it's actually a negative thing - it's very confusing to have new releases of all of these unfamiliar mods, with all of the unfamiliar units which they are just now beginning to get used to becoming even more unfamiliar because they are acting in a manner different from how they acted before.