i see your point, well met swiftspear! but society as a whole needs to make a fundamental shift in attitude towards computers and electronic equipment as well as the people who maintain/upgrade/somethingicantthinkofawordfor them.
and frankly i dont really see it happening. we have definately reached the saturation point, where everyone in a developed country (except hobos and the like) has the opportunity to use and experiment with computers/electric devices. at this point, the barriers are in the mind, and tbh, i dont feel that the culture of under 30's is developing towards the intelligent use of technology (or the intelligent use of anything for that matter) and unfortunately this is perpetuated through TV/mass media stereotypes. sure, everyone wants an ipod/xbox/randomgadget, but no-one thinks about who actually makes the damn things, cos it sure aint the football 'heroes' bashing their heads together in the hallway. its the guys youth society has relegated to the bottom of the heap.
until this changes, we're stuck with Halo "the same 2 rooms with different paintjobs" World of Warcraft "lets pick flowers, hold hands and sing a song" and hundreds of other games where looking pretty to suck in buyers has taken precedence over designing an actually good game.
**edit** lol novel length post. didnt mean to ramble on liek that... honest. it only really bugged me cos a workmate of mine just got back from the states, had a whole load of photos from Gencon, and seeing the reactions of some of my other workmates (who are in their late 20's) actually disgusted me "was their liek, tons of geeks there? *chews bubblegum*" god, i felt like smacking her one.
RTS' on consoles.
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Swift, about "people wanting to download things, like new furniture, maps, etc, etc", Xbox Live lets you do this. Can probably do the same on PS3 as well, and Wii has some limited download functions currently as well.
And this is just the first generation of online consoles. The next-next generation stuff might even allow some sort of modding. Probably not mod DESIGN, but utilizing stuff that's made on PC.
And this is just the first generation of online consoles. The next-next generation stuff might even allow some sort of modding. Probably not mod DESIGN, but utilizing stuff that's made on PC.
someone had suggested to me to put Spring on these consoles. if Nintendo and Microsoft are looking for new ideas for games, why can we give them Spring?
We make the mods, send them to M and/or N and let them improve the graphics and stuff. You see, if we could get a big company as an ally, then we would have the best game engine ever!
We make the mods, send them to M and/or N and let them improve the graphics and stuff. You see, if we could get a big company as an ally, then we would have the best game engine ever!
...
I really don't think even writing an engine like springs would take but a few months or less for a serious company, and most of the mods are general phail, have no storylines and no campaign... You can't improvise or improve the models and textures, they would need to be remade from scratch, they would have to make mod specific maps, and they would have to be excellent for it to be good.
Not to mention, it would cease to be open source because then they would code it, and we wouldn't be able to mod/dev with it.
I really don't think even writing an engine like springs would take but a few months or less for a serious company, and most of the mods are general phail, have no storylines and no campaign... You can't improvise or improve the models and textures, they would need to be remade from scratch, they would have to make mod specific maps, and they would have to be excellent for it to be good.
Not to mention, it would cease to be open source because then they would code it, and we wouldn't be able to mod/dev with it.
So much true... :)Pressure Line wrote: it actually makes me sad really, that if on monday someone asked me "what did you do this weekend?" and i answered "spent all weekend working on my car, new engine is almost ready to go in" i would get a response along the lines of "thats cool man" but if i answered "spent most of the weekend modeling and coding some stuff for a game" i would get eyed with suspicion (best case scenario) or called a geek/nerd and told im wasting my time, should do something more useful etc etc.
My father hates the fact that I play games a big lot instead of playing soccer or something like that. He doesnt understands that in the same way that soccer is a exercise for the body games are a exercise for the mind, and I prefer my mind over my body... :)
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SwiftSpear
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Games aren't really "exercise for the mind", depending on the situation play is generally the best learning system available to humans, but it's not generic to the point where if I learn a game in and out I'm exercising the mind by playing more, if that's the argument, you exercise the mind by making strategic and tactical decisions playing soccer as well.manored wrote:So much true... :)Pressure Line wrote: it actually makes me sad really, that if on monday someone asked me "what did you do this weekend?" and i answered "spent all weekend working on my car, new engine is almost ready to go in" i would get a response along the lines of "thats cool man" but if i answered "spent most of the weekend modeling and coding some stuff for a game" i would get eyed with suspicion (best case scenario) or called a geek/nerd and told im wasting my time, should do something more useful etc etc.
My father hates the fact that I play games a big lot instead of playing soccer or something like that. He doesnt understands that in the same way that soccer is a exercise for the body games are a exercise for the mind, and I prefer my mind over my body... :)
Entertainment is a human necessity, but that being said, we do have an unhealthy tendency to spend more time than we should on entertaining pursuits quite often. Maby you can't play soccer all the time because you don't find it fun. For me, if I had the chance I'd spend 8 hours a day playing volleyball, but the reality is that I can't find a game going on that often that I can join, so I can't play as much of that particular game as I like. Video games tend to be quick, easy, efficient entertainment, with various benefits depending on the title/system being used. That isn't to say however that you're just as well off spending all your time playing video games. Ideally you spend your time split between several different passions that improve you as a person in many different ways.
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SwiftSpear
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Depends, like I already said, if the console RTS is designed for use on a control pad what are the chances it's even going to work correctly on some obscure console mouse/keyboard in a way similar to a PC RTS?Muzic wrote:But then if there was a keyboard and mouse attachment, would there be a difference nemppu?nemppu wrote:consol rts bad it is pc ftw))))
Part of the great thing about spring is you can customize all your hotkeys and keyboard responses... Good luck finding a console game that does that.
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Pressure Line
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imagine wc3 being played on a console.Muzic wrote:But then if there was a keyboard and mouse attachment, would there be a difference nemppu?nemppu wrote:consol rts bad it is pc ftw))))
how do you do use control groups, move orders, attack move orders, focus firing, skill/spell autocasts , consumable item hotkeys, and unit/building producing hotkeys and idle peon hotkeys? or are all these just "unnecessary"
from my limited rts experience on consoles, it was basically like playing a rts using only your mouse.
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Pressure Line
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I think the public opinions will shift slowly towards more acceptance, when interfacing with computers becomes easier. In 20 years, everyone will have displays sprayed on their wall and use multi touch panels and voice recognition.and frankly i dont really see it happening. we have definately reached the saturation point, where everyone in a developed country (except hobos and the like) has the opportunity to use and experiment with computers/electric devices
If it is easier to use computers, more people will use them for entertainment.
In comparison with a car, people react well to others working on a car because they use cars directly.
Game modding however, has an extra step of indirection. The average person is still not a gamer, so they don't really understand gaming, let alone understand making games.
So I agree with swift that computer use and technology still has to mature a lot further.
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SwiftSpear
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A: I'd argue we haven't reached saturation point. Within the last 5 years saturation point has become very near in the first world sure, but in the third world you're ALOT more likely to see a car than a computer. Additionally, personal computing might be reaching saturation, but passive computing is just starting to pick up. It never would have occurred to someone 10 years ago that it's feasible to run a house with a computer, or a car, or a cellphone.
B: Even at the point of saturation, 5 years isn't enough to shift mass perception. For a good 95% of people having cars around and living with the car has been the regular their entire life. Of course people will accept car work when that is the case. When we talk about computers we're talking about maby 5% of all people are used to computers in their life at saturation point. Even for us techies and nerds, most of us probably haven't had our own personal computer for more than 10 years now. While we may be at saturation point, we're not talking about a human market right now that is fully interpreted with computer familiarity. You want proof? Go out right now and find a 10 year old that is as computer illiterate as your grandma is, my bet is they don't exist. I bet your grandma can drive better than the 10 year old though.
While sure, we might have PUT computers everywhere now, we certainly haven't made everyone trust them yet.
B: Even at the point of saturation, 5 years isn't enough to shift mass perception. For a good 95% of people having cars around and living with the car has been the regular their entire life. Of course people will accept car work when that is the case. When we talk about computers we're talking about maby 5% of all people are used to computers in their life at saturation point. Even for us techies and nerds, most of us probably haven't had our own personal computer for more than 10 years now. While we may be at saturation point, we're not talking about a human market right now that is fully interpreted with computer familiarity. You want proof? Go out right now and find a 10 year old that is as computer illiterate as your grandma is, my bet is they don't exist. I bet your grandma can drive better than the 10 year old though.
While sure, we might have PUT computers everywhere now, we certainly haven't made everyone trust them yet.
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SwiftSpear
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FPS keymaps are inherently ALOT simpler than RTS keymaps. Halflife uses all of 20 keys at a maximum on my keyboard, I don't have enough keys to bind most of the things I'd like to have bound in spring. Add in all the ctrl, and ctrl-alt commands spring uses, and you realize how complicated the system is getting already.Lippy wrote:Well, unreal 3 on the PS3 has been confirmed to allow the use of keyboard and mouse. Why shouldn't RTS games on the PS3 be able to do the same thing?
[edit] not to say it's impossible, just to say that you're going to have to spend a good few hours mapping keys before an RTS is playable on a console.
