There is overwhelming evidence that these factors have little to nothing to do with whether a map is played or not. Not that I don't incorporate and consider them, but people still play Neurope or Speedball more than many balanced, pretty, and conceptually magnificent maps.
Your maps, warts and all, get played not on their own merit but because you have people willing to host them on release. This forces popularity as everybody who picked up the map for a late game with 90 people in lobby has it forevermore, and thus it is convenient. The majority could care less about the actual quality of the map.
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people would not host them if they were not fun.neddiedrow wrote: Your maps, warts and all, get played not on their own merit
same for speedball and neurope and greenfields and whatever popular map you can name. sure, i think all of those maps are not fun at all, but a lot of people do or they wouldn't host the games running them, or join games playing them.
Last edited by hunterw on 03 Aug 2007, 03:35, edited 1 time in total.
Fun is a part of it, yes, but not the only one, and not an easily controlled one. Duck is fun because people thought it was fun. Emmanuel was fun because of Emmanuel. Tabula is fun because of the phallic imagery and the fact that yes, you can play a large team game on a relatively small map with great design.
However, many people think Picasso's maps are fun and nobody plays them.
However, many people think Picasso's maps are fun and nobody plays them.
a 92 megabyte 64x16 map is not going to be played much
ffs, tempest is 24 meg 20x20 and it never gets played, which conflicts with your whole "everyone hosts hunterw maps no matter what" theory
ffs, tempest is 24 meg 20x20 and it never gets played, which conflicts with your whole "everyone hosts hunterw maps no matter what" theory
Last edited by hunterw on 03 Aug 2007, 03:58, edited 2 times in total.
You missed my point - that is the most played of his I have ever seen, and I've spent an estimated 75,000 minutes in lobby.
That said, I must note that this was on the "fun" assertion tangent. None of his maps have reasonable resource placement - no offense, Picasso - and none of them are balanced.
That said, I must note that this was on the "fun" assertion tangent. None of his maps have reasonable resource placement - no offense, Picasso - and none of them are balanced.
Last edited by Neddie on 03 Aug 2007, 03:57, edited 1 time in total.
people play awalldividesit every couple of days, that's probably his most popular map
the barrier to popularity for most of picasso's maps are either due to them being huge in either scale or megs, or due to being asymmetrical. he also makes some niche maps - almost completely underwater ones, and a floating in space FF map.
i'd really like to see people play speedrnetall instead of speedmetal - that seems to be his most viable map for mass consumption
the barrier to popularity for most of picasso's maps are either due to them being huge in either scale or megs, or due to being asymmetrical. he also makes some niche maps - almost completely underwater ones, and a floating in space FF map.
i'd really like to see people play speedrnetall instead of speedmetal - that seems to be his most viable map for mass consumption
so now you agree that those factors are big parts of what make them fun, yetneddiedrow wrote:
That said, I must note that this was on the "fun" assertion tangent. None of his maps have reasonable resource placement - no offense, Picasso - and none of them are balanced.
i will agree that visuals don't really matter that much thoughneddiedrow wrote:
Since nobody really cares about a good metal layout, good visuals, or a good concept
Man... oh well... I'm jsut goona release it without rain then. As soo nas I get my pc in good enough shape to check my last build i'll upload it and people can play. TREE MAP HERE WE COME... (welll... after the weekend actully... i got a wedding to attend.)neddiedrow wrote:I can't code either. Hurrah for very little knowledge outside of basic Java.
I do wonder though... will people play teh tree map? I mean.. no one plays my other maps as far as i can tell...
aGorm
Most people can't explain why they play a particular map in any game, aside from the fact that they do indeed play it. I know this, I've analyzed it. For me, playing on a map is all about the balance and the effort made by the mapper - but it clearly isn't so for most players, from FPS to RTS. Just the number of terrible maps for UT2k4 played often should exhibit to you, a UT mapper, the truth of this assertion.
What I don't understand from this discussion is how people can mistake my generalized statements about the wonderful mass of humanity for my own opinions or ideas. If I were telling you about what I do or want, I would be explicit about it, and we would have a much longer conversation with more content and less fencing.
What I don't understand from this discussion is how people can mistake my generalized statements about the wonderful mass of humanity for my own opinions or ideas. If I were telling you about what I do or want, I would be explicit about it, and we would have a much longer conversation with more content and less fencing.
I don't think that's true neddie, most players know what they want and it falls in my opinion into 2 categories (these are HUGE generalizations, don't go flaming me) :
1. people who like the porc (altored, SSB, SM, castles, Tangerine, Tropical and even GF) which are most of the players.
2. people who dont like the porc (CC, BB, Darksdie remake, XantheTerra) which are mostly 1v1 players anyways.
Some maps include both types of gameplay (DSD, Charlie in the hills) and in my point of view they are the best because they give something for both types of players.
It's no surprise to me the top 5 most downloaded map on UF are total porc fests.
If your interest is to get your map played by a lot of players make a large (4v4 - 6v6), symmetrical, easily porcable map and bother a little with the graphics (but not to much).
my 2 cents.
1. people who like the porc (altored, SSB, SM, castles, Tangerine, Tropical and even GF) which are most of the players.
2. people who dont like the porc (CC, BB, Darksdie remake, XantheTerra) which are mostly 1v1 players anyways.
Some maps include both types of gameplay (DSD, Charlie in the hills) and in my point of view they are the best because they give something for both types of players.
It's no surprise to me the top 5 most downloaded map on UF are total porc fests.
If your interest is to get your map played by a lot of players make a large (4v4 - 6v6), symmetrical, easily porcable map and bother a little with the graphics (but not to much).
my 2 cents.
Goolash, you know I don't flame, laddie. In the case of BA, I do agree with you - it's just that this conversation grew out of a disagreement with the advice of AF on the map I'm currently making which unfortunately involved a sarcastic and cynical phrase that hunterw latched on to - perfectly understandable, the forums were pretty dead at the time.
I feel that the effort that we put in, in terms of making a playable map, is not rewarded for itself, but for our other activities - the use of friends to host our maps and encourage play of them. I make my maps for the community and, indeed, for me - but if nobody plays them, their loss!
Oh, and thanks for giving us another proof that you aren't an average player, Smoth.
I feel that the effort that we put in, in terms of making a playable map, is not rewarded for itself, but for our other activities - the use of friends to host our maps and encourage play of them. I make my maps for the community and, indeed, for me - but if nobody plays them, their loss!
Oh, and thanks for giving us another proof that you aren't an average player, Smoth.
Trust me, I've analyzed this too, and while it is true that there's always a certain degree to which people cannot put their finger on just what it is that they like, you aren't giving them enough credit.neddiedrow wrote:Most people can't explain why they play a particular map in any game, aside from the fact that they do indeed play it. I know this, I've analyzed it. For me, playing on a map is all about the balance and the effort made by the mapper - but it clearly isn't so for most players, from FPS to RTS. Just the number of terrible maps for UT2k4 played often should exhibit to you, a UT mapper, the truth of this assertion.
The maps that we would call "terrible" obviously aren't that terrible if they get lots of play. Even if you or I clearly hate them and think they are garbage, it is still worth trying to climb in to other people's heads and figure out why they think it is fun, because then we as mappers can capitalize on that information.
A great example is this map that I made. Didn't even release it under my name, because it is by all means a terrible map in the eyes of any mapper, and myself as well.
It got played a dozen times a day or so...more popular than some of my maps that took hundreds of hours to make.
Make a 4v4 and I will host it and we will play it until it's oldneddiedrow wrote:
I feel that the effort that we put in, in terms of making a playable map, is not rewarded for itself, but for our other activities - the use of friends to host our maps and encourage play of them.
