Map "Features" models, pictures, models, comments,

LathanStanley · Post by **LathanStanley** » 01 Jul 2005, 21:13

Ok here's the thread on new "feature" models for the maps on the new map engine for Spring... soon to be released...

I'm gonna try to more or less lead this thing... nobody else seems to have stuff to post on it...

please FEEL FREE to comment on my work, and PLEASE FEEL FREE to add to my work.... its alota stuff to do and to do it all single-handedly is a lil tough... I can do it all... it'll just take longer...

my intentions on EVERY MAP MODEL... are to be higher polygon models.. but VERY FEW TEXTURES on each model... I've read in many locations that models with only "colors" and no "textures" though with say 8x the facet count (visible faces) STILL render faster, and with the detail added, will present a better model for everyone to see...

My current method of building map models etc, is 3DS MAX, (on whatever version you prefer) then exporting it to a general 3DS model, which can be loaded in 3DS MAX 5 or older, which in turn can use the scripted 3DO IMPORTER/EXPORTER.. so the models can be scaled and prepped to be used with the game...

NOTE!!! In MAX, NO TEXTURES will transfer from 3DS to 3DO, ONLY colors, and ONLY TA's PALETTE COLORS!... I went through the effort of making a palette with adobe photoshop, I'll see if I can get it hosted on fileplanet later... There in another script thingie for MAX 5,6,7 for easily opening the palette in MAX, though its not required, you still have to type in the xxx xxx xxx (RGB) values into max for the colors.... the lil script will list em easily for you however...

Now with that understood... I'll open the thread

LathanStanley · Post by **LathanStanley** » 01 Jul 2005, 21:17

Palm tree used, no textures, only colors, 497 faces approx. 4x the faces of current trees, but no textures, should yeild ~40% improvement in rendering...
(though this is ONLY a guess from readings by maestro.... we'll see what spring does to it soon enough)

more soon

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 01 Jul 2005, 21:31

tasty! i want too see some cool tropical maps (possibly some of those archipelego maps?) with those sweet looking palm trees on!!!!

Post by SJ » 01 Jul 2005, 21:53

Spring treats textured and non textured faces exactly the same, in fact colored (non textured) faces just gets a 1x1 texture with that color.

shnorb · Post by **shnorb** » 01 Jul 2005, 22:38

LathanStanley · Post by **LathanStanley** » 01 Jul 2005, 23:41

SJ wrote:Spring treats textured and non textured faces exactly the same, in fact colored (non textured) faces just gets a 1x1 texture with that color.

have you tried running models that are detailed with only colors?

if you've tried it and its no different on anything... I'll go back to drawing them the other way.. and see what I can do about texturing... but I figured this would be a way around it...

Edit:
I mean it makes sense to me as well... if there is no texture that it'll just replace it with a "color 1x1 * unlimited pattern" texture to make it a color....

but still... if there are select #'s of colors.. it'll still help wouldn't it?
(Though I know about 0 code)
the engine seems that it renders very simillar to a FPS in its rendering, it has a far clipping plane, detail levels dependant on zoom etc...

and if you take a FPS, and take every texture off every surface... or per-say, replace them all with 1x1 colors... 256 different 1x1 colors...

your framerate skyrockets.....

the only drawback I can think of... are the shadows... but then again.. the players who have that kinda videocard.... can surely process it

edit2:

another thought.... wouldn't the only time a 1x1 texture cause problems be when a LARGER texture, say ANY XXXxXXX pixel texture, be scaled to fit in a 1x1 area? if the "texture" itself its just 1 pixel... it shain't slow the computer down, and still load faster....

Buggi · Post by **Buggi** » 02 Jul 2005, 03:03

I'd be happy to try to get that tree into a 3do feature.

I'll be messing more with the implimentations of features in about a week, work (what pays the bills) has swamped me the last few weeks.

@_@

-Buggi

[K.B.] Napalm Cobra · Post by **[K.B.] Napalm Cobra** » 02 Jul 2005, 07:54

What I need is textures, or atleast somewhere to find them.

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 02 Jul 2005, 08:38

Nice.

How much do we all go to litigation hell if we steal features from places like Rome: Total War?

LathanStanley · Post by **LathanStanley** » 02 Jul 2005, 10:28

Warlord Zsinj wrote:Nice.

How much do we all go to litigation hell if we steal features from places like Rome: Total War?

I can do better than rome...

[K.B.] Napalm Cobra · Post by **[K.B.] Napalm Cobra** » 02 Jul 2005, 11:44

Well your tree is nice, but RTW is a force to be reckoned with.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 02 Jul 2005, 12:32

True! Have you tried Rome: Total Realism yet? Awesome...and i can't wait till the mod which actually allows you to take cotrol of naval battles

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 02 Jul 2005, 13:00

Yeah, I tried the realism mod. It does make the game much better, but it changes very little visually, only a few units, the greek walls and battering rams, and maybe a few others. Certainly not the trees.

I'd like to see some more alien features, as opposed to just basic trees. One step at a time I suppose.

I am tempted to make some urban feature models. Would anyone put their hand up to texture them, if I made the models?
I'm thinking they should be pretty large (like that Imperial Star Destroyer I made), that units should duke it out in their shadows, with aircraft spinning around them.

Anyway, to the SY's, I think you need to put the ability to code animations into features. A basic script would be nice too, so that you could get features to respond to certain stimuli. For example, getting trees to sway in the direction of wind, or making them respond to being hit from a certain direction (for example, I'd love to be able to make buildings topple over in the opposite direction to where they were hit, as well as blowing out rubble when hit by a weapon, etc.

EDIT: Well, I knocked something:

For scale, I would say that a hawk would fit neatly in one of the hexagonal "windows" that surround the cylinder.

File located here, if someone wants to have a shot at texturing it:
http://www.fileuniverse.com/?page=showitem&ID=1094

LathanStanley · Post by **LathanStanley** » 03 Jul 2005, 03:54

neat tower

maybe add some rubbleish chinks and chips in it??? that'll boost its quality and how well it'll fit in on urban maps...

for regular maps where its (non damaged) add some detail to the bulges on the parts that extrude from the main hexagon

LathanStanley · Post by **LathanStanley** » 03 Jul 2005, 03:56

I began on some one of the urban buildings today... few hrs work while I was cleaning up my room and stuff

thoughts?? (before I start adding damages and detail aspects to the model...

yeah the main thing in the middle fo the roof I'mma do, and yeah I'm gonna add detail to the walls...

edit:
oh yeah and its 2360 faces allready

and I'm gonna make it a lil less wide... thats not too hard... just noticed that after looking at it again

Ace07 · Post by **Ace07** » 03 Jul 2005, 04:40

That building looks pretty good. I hope you stick around long enough to model everything though. I would rather not have Atari suing us when we become poplular.

LathanStanley · Post by **LathanStanley** » 03 Jul 2005, 05:45

Ace07 wrote:That building looks pretty good. I hope you stick around long enough to model everything though. I would rather not have Atari suing us when we become poplular.

shouldn't take me too long to model em all

[K.B.] Napalm Cobra · Post by **[K.B.] Napalm Cobra** » 03 Jul 2005, 07:13

Can you rehost that tower as a different format? OBJ or 3DS perhaps?

And how is that 2360 faces?!?!?!

LathanStanley · Post by **LathanStanley** » 03 Jul 2005, 14:40

[K.B.] Napalm Cobra wrote:Can you rehost that tower as a different format? OBJ or 3DS perhaps?

And how is that 2360 faces?!?!?!

a- the main building itself is 18*7 rectangles
b- each tower on the top is 12*6 rectangles (*12)
c- the roof is 8 rectangles
d- each door is 19 rectangles (*2)
e- misc rectangles around door and filling cracks on roof 144

total = 1180 rectangles

now 3dsmax treats every rectangle as 2 triangle faces, thus, eliminiating illegal faces by vertex manipulation..... multiplay 1180*2 = 2360 faces...

why max does this?? max is designed to handle 100's of 1,000's of faces at once.. do a mesh edit/morpher on any part of any mesh thats a "soft selection" and every vertex gets moved a small amount... now if you are working with triangles... each vertex can move anywhere and you still have a flat triangle...

if you have a square, and move one corner, then you don't have a flat square anymore, you have to move the adjoining vertexes on the left and right a linear difference depending on their distance (a trigonmetric algorithm) to match the flat surface required....

takes abotu 10x the computing power to edit faces in such a manner, and on top of that, its not user friendly...

max made 3d editing easy, but at a consequence of triangle faces, and ONLY triangle faces...

another reason why I am going to only "color" my models... I can crank out MAD 3D detail on max, but TA hates putting textures on triangular surfaces, it actually almost refuses to do it alltogether...

but approx 8x the faces on map objects (which are higher detail as well as only triangles.. ) should not be enough of a problem to dampen the games playability long as there is few to no "bitmap textures" involved. though I will generate a true "3d texture" to a limited extent on each model... it'll be ok

I'll post a small image of what I mean by triangles vs. squares in a second...

LathanStanley · Post by **LathanStanley** » 03 Jul 2005, 15:04

what I mean by good squares and bad (illegal) squares
vs.
All triangles

max solves the problem of bending the square, by dividing it into its roots, 2 triangles...

Spring RTS Engine

Map "Features" models, pictures, models, comments,

Map "Features" models, pictures, models, comments,