Supcom Expansion

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 01 Jul 2007, 09:26

TheRegisteredOne wrote:I think supcom has as many units as ta has before cc

Yes but distributed over more factions. And keep in mind that the unit count includes stuff like the basic resource buildings that are needed once per faction so even if all battle units are different you'd still lose a bunch of that count to the econ and stuff.

jackalope · Post by **jackalope** » 01 Jul 2007, 14:34

caydr i hate how you are so goddamn in love with computer horsepower

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 01 Jul 2007, 20:28

jackalope wrote:caydr i hate how you are so goddamn in love with computer horsepower

Eh, you'll get used to it.

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 01 Jul 2007, 21:52

I have to wonder how many of SupCom's detractors here have actually played it. Claims like "all the sides are the same" obviously haven't kept you away from TA, and in fact SupCom's sides are have lots of with unique units, far more than TA ever had, even if it's not to the degree of Starcraft. Sounds like you're just repeating what you've heard others say, to me.

This is highly debatable.
----
It not debatable, its just highly inaccurate. Supcom unit types are simple and factions are nearly identical with minor alterations, with the exception of the highest tier uber units.

I find that the types of units are the same between the factions but they do differ.

For example some fo the aeon ground units can hover

The aeon scout can hover, the cybran scout can cloak but cant hover

Cybran tech 3 aircraft can stealth

Aeon have a tier 2 shield gen and a tier 3, but the Cybran only have a tier 2, yet that shield generator cna be upgraded 5 times to be better than the enemies.

Aeon have submarines, frigates and antiair ships yet the other factions only have 2 tier 1 ships

Aeon units can sacrifice themselves

tier 1 general purpose Cybran units can repair eachother

Aeon Tier 3 siege units can reclaim and help build, whereas UEF siege units have shields

Cybran transports are far better than the rest.

Just because there arent any major differences in units doesnt mean theres no differences at all. All factions have a general set of units, but they've then be fiddled with to get different styles and results. To say they're just the same but with different gfx and names is showing how poor your grasp of supcom really is and how ignorant you are of details.

I also think some of the issues with people feeling that the game is missing stuff is from the vast quantities of units seen only in the concept art. It gave the impression there would be hundreds of unit types in each faction. The sort where you open up your tier 3 factory and see 20 unit types on offer.

To add a couple of my own:
Cybran destroyers (or was it cruisers?) can walk on land.
Upgradable commanders all have different strengths
Various common units have unique abilities, such as radar jamming, radar invisibility, radar ghosting, LoS at weapon impact point, and wildly varying experimental units. And experimental units aren't TA/AA-like, where they're almost never seen in a competitive game.

caydr i hate how you are so goddamn in love with computer horsepower

SUPCOM SUCK ALL UNITS SAME!!!
Not really.
Err... YOU'RE A COMPUTER WHORE!!!
Yes.

Guessmyname · Post by **Guessmyname** » 01 Jul 2007, 22:01

There are two things I have against Supcom:
1. It don't work on my comp (and it should too)
2. We lost Gear Commander to it, and Spring would have been a far better engine for it (Centurion wanted GC to be tactical. Supcom ain't built around tactical...)

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 01 Jul 2007, 22:03

What sorta computer have you got?

Guessmyname · Post by **Guessmyname** » 01 Jul 2007, 22:10

One that's broke, that's the main problem. Demo for SupCom ran fine (sort of - lacked sound until I fiddled with it excessively), but something's just gone wrong. Anything that taxes the computer will make it crash between ten minutes and half an hour with a GPF error. Such programs that are affected by this:

Half-Life 2 and related mods (Lasts for one or two rounds of ZM)
UT2004 and related mods (Lasts ten minutes)
Spring (Lasts for about an hour)
Ghost Recon (Lasts for about an hour)
Hitman 2 (Lasts for about half and hour, with distorted sound)
Homeworld 2 (Lasts about half and hour)
Photoshop (lasts for about an hour)
Flash games in firefox (though these can last for hours before the computer starts flying upside down)
iTunes (several hours)

We're gonna build a new one soon though, so I can't gripe that much...

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 01 Jul 2007, 22:16

Sounds like a RAM overheating issue if you ask me.

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 01 Jul 2007, 22:25

You're angry SupCom doesn't run on your computer, despite the fact that nothing else will either?

Can you post your system specs, maybe I could figure out what the problem is. Probably not, but maybe.

Guessmyname · Post by **Guessmyname** » 01 Jul 2007, 22:33

CPU: AuthenticAMD PentiumPro-class processor @ 2169 MHz with 1023MB RAM
Video: RADEON 9600 SERIES (6618)

120GB Hard drive space

AF · Post by AF » 01 Jul 2007, 23:18

gpf error?

Guessmyname · Post by **Guessmyname** » 02 Jul 2007, 00:07

General Protection Fault

AF · Post by AF » 02 Jul 2007, 01:50

a BSOD type crash? surely there must be more details to the fault which are googleable.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 02 Jul 2007, 03:34

what are they going to put the aeon open/close anims back in? Supcom is the single dullest rts I have ever played and It is the only game of the 100s I own that I lament buying.

AF · Post by AF » 02 Jul 2007, 03:50

They all have open close animations of some kind, the aeon panels opening up, the cybran builder drones popping out etc. But that doesnt mean they delay building untill theyve opened up.

And I want awae the aeon animations ahd been remvoed to begin with.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 02 Jul 2007, 03:54

The aeon are open at all times flying around etc. In the origonal description they were to open up when in action(ie fighting loading etc.) you can see the closed anim when they are being built and I checked on the supcom forum af, this is not some misunderstanding on my part. This is a feature that was not put in.

cmon' man, think about who you are talking to.

Zpock · Post by **Zpock** » 02 Jul 2007, 04:06

I think I read/heard interview that they took out the aeon folding animations to make the game run faster. Something about the many individual animated pieces slowing the game down.

This seems totally retarded and sad to me, the aeon folding units seemed very cool. Speculation, but smells like a desperate wild cut trying and failing to fix the uber laginess of the game, that nobody probably has/had a clue why it was so. I mean come on, how many pieces would a typical little unit need to fold? 3?

AF · Post by AF » 02 Jul 2007, 04:26

I never noticed that.... =(

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 02 Jul 2007, 05:30

Zpock wrote: This seems totally retarded and sad to me, the aeon folding units seemed very cool. Speculation, but smells like a desperate wild cut trying and failing to fix the uber laginess of the game, that nobody probably has/had a clue why it was so. I mean come on, how many pieces would a typical little unit need to fold? 3?

IMO it would merely be part of the aiming or loading animation :\. I have a machine that runs supcom easily pity those assholes couldn't have made it an option. It is obviously something they quickly took out and tried to brush under the rug.

/me curses some more.

even so the effects are dull as nails and frankly they could have learned a lot from spring's repeat and area load/unload commands. I may be missing something but supcom is a dawdle.

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 02 Jul 2007, 05:49

smoth wrote:The aeon are open at all times flying around etc. In the origonal description they were to open up when in action(ie fighting loading etc.) you can see the closed anim when they are being built and I checked on the supcom forum af, this is not some misunderstanding on my part. This is a feature that was not put in.

cmon' man, think about who you are talking to.

Oh ****, they aircraft don't open and close? We've been ripped off. I'm taking it back to the store, and in the morning I'm going to write a letter to my member of parliament.

they could have learned a lot from spring's repeat and area load/unload commands

They did. Or rather, we did, when we ripped off their "ferry" command, along with a dozen other things that were insta-copied as the previews came out. Click a transport, click ferry, click the destination. To set up a group-load-group-unload in Spring, you select a bunch of transports, click repeat on, click load, drag select an area, click unload, drag-select another area. In SupCom, the lead transport in the group you selected now drops a ferry beacon that can be used to assign more tranports to the same route with one click. In Spring, you've got to repeat the above process for every extra transport you add. If you want to move units via this method in Spring, you move them to the area, and once they get close enough they get picked up. In SupCom, you right click on the ferry beacon with the units you want to move and transports immediately move to pick them up, then resume the ferry route once they're done. Spring's method is more flexible, but it's not nearly as easy to use and takes a lot more time you generally don't have.

Spring copied SupCom in a ton of ways, if you want a list just say the word. Seriously make an ass of yourself and pretend this is rubbish, everyone here could use a good laugh. Spring's devs have copied basically every good feature from every RTS ever made... it's the way the project functions. It's not a bad thing, it's the reason Spring's so great. There's a little bit of everything good here, in addition to a fair bit of original stuff.

After reading that nonsense I'm sure there's yet another person who hasn't actually played SupCom before they criticized it. roffle...

I think I read/heard interview that they took out the aeon folding animations to make the game run faster. Something about the many individual animated pieces slowing the game down.

Show me, and I'll believe you.

Better yet, explain to me how a unit that needs to unfold its guns can be ready to fire at an enemy at split-seconds notice. SupCom's aircraft move fairly quick compared to other RTSs, especially the scout planes. This is necessitated by the fact that the maps are so large. In large engagements, the opening shot could probably destroy at least a tenth of your aircraft, and Aeon couldn't go through any kind of fast enough unfolding process without it looking silly.

So you'd need at least 10% more aircraft than your opponent in order to not be at a disadvantage, because the aesthetics appealed to you. Uhh-huhhh... Maybe make them cheaper?

That fixes the gameplay, but makes it logically ridiculous. What kind of a crazyass design decision would it be to have units be designed to lose a tenth of their number before firing a single shot? Just because Gundam gets away with crazy stuff like legged robots fighting with swords in outer space doesn't mean that it makes sense in a realistic setting to have completely idiotic design decisions. Nothing against Gundam as a mod, I'm talking about Gundam since it's a good point of reference for extremely illogical vehicle design, the same thing you're suggesting makes sense in a "semi-realistic" RTS.

Spring RTS Engine

Supcom Expansion