Land at 80% for aircraft

Post by **Viktor** » 23 Jun 2007, 21:37

How about to add 80% in Land At switch and Land to repair pad and repair now command for aircraft?

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 23 Jun 2007, 22:47

You know, I think that would be a good idea. Is there a way to allow the landing options to be decided game-side by the modder - I know some would benefit from being able to choose what is available to the players.

Lippy · Post by **Lippy** » 23 Jun 2007, 22:47

That would be very useful I think. It would be best if the aircraft, after repairing, would go back to what it was doing before-hand.

But then again this could probably be done with a lua widget.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 23 Jun 2007, 22:49

Well, couldn't it insert a wait command, go in for the repair, and then resume the prior routine? Or just insert the repair in the middle of the command chain - I'm not sure if that can be done yet, but it would be helpful.

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 23 Jun 2007, 23:02

+ 10000000

i suggested this to tobi not long ago, though i said 70%

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 24 Jun 2007, 14:48

Modders need alot more power when it comes to dealing with aircraft. This is something I can see being quite useful though. Different mods might need a different percentage figure though... heck in BA if my plane hits 50% I know it's not going to survive much longer and it would save me the res if it doubled back.

[edit] Not having the ability to turn this off also might break FF completely...

j5mello · Post by **j5mello** » 25 Jun 2007, 01:27

isn't land at zero basically turning it off?

oh in concert with this is it possible to get air facs to display the land at option and pass it down to created units much like fire and move states?

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 25 Jun 2007, 14:06

Fundamentally, I'd rather _all_ the non-TA default switches (particularly the ones controlling complex AI behaviour like Land At) be factored out into a scripted approach. Mod-defined script-driven switches FTW.

Has anyone ever used the immelman switch?

AF · Post by AF » 25 Jun 2007, 14:18

That would nuke AIs

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 25 Jun 2007, 16:53

AF wrote:That would nuke AIs

AIs are capable of doing the LandAt orders directly (as in, monitoring the health of every air unit and telling it to return for repairs if it believes it is too damaged).

LandAt is really a unit-AI that got incorporated into the main Spring code because UnitAIs are too cumbersome for things that are absolutely necessary.

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 25 Jun 2007, 16:56

Pxtl wrote:Fundamentally, I'd rather _all_ the non-TA default switches (particularly the ones controlling complex AI behaviour like Land At) be factored out into a scripted approach. Mod-defined script-driven switches FTW.

I think the line shouldn't be drawn between TA and non-TA. Ideally on/off and cloaked would get turned into Lua as well.

Obviously there needs to be some interface between the AI and Lua.

AF · Post by AF » 26 Jun 2007, 08:09

Ys but then you have 2 conflicting routines fighting eachother

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 26 Jun 2007, 10:51

AF wrote:Ys but then you have 2 conflicting routines fighting eachother

What do you mean?

AF · Post by AF » 26 Jun 2007, 14:58

AI says return at 60%
Mod script says return at 80%

both argue over when aircraft should return. The end result being it returns at 80% not 60% and the AI routine assumes the units at the frontline fighting when actually its returned. The unit risks being kicked off of the merrygo round of orders and being abandoned by the AI because the AI is waiting for it to finish a task itll never start.

LathanStanley · Post by **LathanStanley** » 26 Jun 2007, 16:31

make a slider.

land at "x" (push slider)

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 26 Jun 2007, 16:49

AF wrote:AI says return at 60%
Mod script says return at 80%

both argue over when aircraft should return. The end result being it returns at 80% not 60% and the AI routine assumes the units at the frontline fighting when actually its returned. The unit risks being kicked off of the merrygo round of orders and being abandoned by the AI because the AI is waiting for it to finish a task itll never start.

Why would that happen? If the mod says "this plane goes back at 80%" and wants it to stay at that the AI or the user won't have the option of changing it.

AF · Post by AF » 26 Jun 2007, 17:14

Right nown planes go back at a certain percentage that can be changed by the user.

For some mods it would be best to return at 80%.

It was suggested that the AI could use its own routine to make units go back at a certain health other than 80.

Lets envisage the following scenario

Code: Select all

ATTACK TASK BEGIN
ISSUE ORDER TO ATTACK UNIT X
WAIT UNTILL UNIT X DIES, THEN RELEASE UNIT AND DESTROY THIS TASK
ATTACK TASK END

Now lets say the mod sends the unit back to base before unit x dies. the unit will stay at the base indefinately untill unit x dies either through self destruct or some other unit. Because the AI has no information about this 80% rule, the AI continues to wait and the unit remains idle.

Tobi · Post by **Tobi** » 26 Jun 2007, 20:11

That applies to all CommandAI stuff, which is bound to become more flexible, not less. (e.g. CommandAI decides to chase enemy unit, AI doesn't know and thinks the unit is still at it's old place and makes wrong decisions because of this...)

Also like the current repair system, I'd presume the aircraft would continue it's previous orders after repairing, so there would be no problem for the AI.

(If it wouldn't resume it's orders it would be useless micro which is against the spirit of Spring)

My underlying point is that an AI should be flexible and not blindly trust all layers below it always behave exactly the same. (If it assumes this it's prone to break too if e.g. CommandAI behaviour changes, which it does sometime..., or if you ever want to implement decent comsharing with humans)

AF · Post by AF » 26 Jun 2007, 20:16

Its fine saying that but your not the one who has a thousand things to account for aswell as a thousand things to account for just incase that you arent sure about.

com sharing with the player also nukes a huge number of AI routines, placing immense constraints on your AIs setup and requiring that the AI be simplified in such a way that the AIs difficulty is compromised greatly or the AI maker has to put in a great amount of effort. If it happens, it happens by consequence.

Acidd_UK · Post by **Acidd_UK** » 26 Jun 2007, 21:41

There are several 'do this once then return to previous order queue' commands that i could see being useful - you set your factory to get bombers to patrol near your front lines. Then when you have a few bombers, set them to 'attack point/target/area'. They would go in and fire their weapons once (useful for bombers, obv) then return to their original patrol. Would anyone else find that really useful?

Spring RTS Engine

Land at 80% for aircraft

Land at 80% for aircraft