goliath vs 2Xarm flak towers.. who wins? why ask

[KiviGerbil]

so, here's the full story.. i played a crappy game against a newcomer, no offense but i'm really looking for a good match.. so i went to see if anyone has any interestin battle recordings on FU.. i found this

http://www.fileuniverse.com/?page=downl ... df&ID=1051

so, it was kinda boring, kinda.. mass goliath & gunships in the end, bah..

but the interesting thing happened right before the last attack, 3 goliaths come from north to the center of the map. the other team has an outpost with a few missile turrets guardian turret and a couple flak towers, one goliath comes to defend from the white player. he has no energy and so u can't see his goliath firing. i would have thought that there goes that outpost... but what do i see.. one of the attacking goliaths goes down, after the outpost is nearly dead, 1 defending goliath of no use, couple missile towers and the 2 flak towers are left..

then the interesting thing happens.. the flak towers shoot at the goliath nearest to them, as the ground starts to sink the other attaking goliath left starts to go around the outpost... the 2 flak towers sink the attacking goliath into a hole and nail it to death... the goliath only gets a few chances of attack... (should have used high trajectory) but still... i nearly fell off the chair while watching this.. 2 flak towers... omg..

i got u dudes a picture, but as i have not used these forum thingys alot before i'm not sure if i can get it to show... here goes...



and yes, that corpse in the hole is the goliath, the one on the lower left is the defending one.. and those two flaks are the only ones that shot the goliath

[KiviGerbil]

whoops, i forgot, i was going to ask a couple things

where does discussion on spring XTA go?

and why does the ground get wasted by the flak guns so easily, not even a guardian can get that kind of rate for lowering ground.

[Doomweaver]

It seems that ground-deformation is a bt out-of-proportion. Should probably be made into a Spring exclusive option for modders in a future release.

[zwzsg]

1) In XTA, Goliath needs much energy to fire. Blame the player for not realising it, or blame the SY for shipping Spring with XTA.

2) I wish they had listened when I said: made units unable to climb slope only if the slope already existed in the pristine map, but allow units to climb any slope (but with a slowed down speed) if it wasn't existing in the pristine map. That would make units unable to climb the wall made by map-maker, but able to go out of any crater.

[DavetheBrave]

hehehe that was my goliath. Actually, my goliath had plenty of energy to fire, but once it was in the hole it couldnt fire at anything because it was so well stuck. Tanks are obviously really bad at climbing slopes in spring, and a goliath is no exception.

I cant say i was really watching that goliath, so I am not sure exactly what happened. However, if I remember clearly, the ground was pretty torn up as it was and my Goliath got stuck. Then, the flakkers just made it alot worse when firing at me, eventually almost completely burying the goliath.

I really doubt that it happens very often....dont count on flakkers taking down you enemy's goliaths.

[mongus]

i was going to say "high trajectory" but didnt want to help any team.

the flak cannon generates a big explotion, but the idea is to hit air units.
as now the flaks fires on ground targets (i dont know why they should/shouldt), the explotion of its shell destroys the ground beneath the tanks.
The same can be accomplised with lrm, and is a good way to stop gollies/bulldogs on its tracks! hard to accomplish though.

i had the same shot, but spring stops taking shots at sc98... why? :/
i lost lots of good screens..

z complaining again.. what has to do climbing with this?
i blame those who complain all the time.

[KiviGerbil]

Dave, ur goliaths did fire, the white player had a golly too

that's his on the lover left, it didn't fire once during that attack

it's interesting how much damage a golly can take, and what that damage does to terrain.

[KiviGerbil]

2) I wish they had listened when I said: made units unable to climb slope only if the slope already existed in the pristine map, but allow units to climb any slope (but with a slowed down speed) if it wasn't existing in the pristine map. That would make units unable to climb the wall made by map-maker, but able to go out of any crater.

this would mean that even if i used something to make a mountain disappear units could not pass it? i wouldn't like that..

my suggestion is that the lower the ground is of the initial value, the harder it gets to sink, as in the ground getting harder.

and maybe at some point to add a 'rock' heightmap that indicates the points where the map is extremely resistant

[Doomweaver]

Yeah, zwsg, bad idea. We WANT terrain to be used as a barrier. And as Kivi said, it should get harder to deform it the deeper it gets.

[Kixxe]

Couldt the explosions have less effect on the ground?

I mean, it's still a big explosion to hit aircraft, just that terrain deformation is lowerd so it dosent dig any big holes... just small ones. Very small ones.

I like this the depper it goes the harder it gets idea... then if you gather a phew mines, you wont go down 7000 meters into the ground.

[Warlord Zsinj]

Ahem, I believe minispring deals with this problem somewhat (or should I say, by exactly 50%). With the smaller explosions, terrain deformation is not such a big issue, as the depressions are less severe, so units are 50% more likely to get out of craters.

Just another reason why minispring should be default in the next release...

[KiviGerbil]

is the speed of units also smaller, and ranges?

[zwzsg]

this would mean that even if i used something to make a mountain disappear units could not pass it? i wouldn't like that..

No, what i meant is:
- To check if terrain is passable or not, take the minimum slope between the current slope and the pristine map slope. (Maybe only keeping the composant of the pristine map slope that is aligned to the current slope, or smthg like that, so if both current slope and pristine map slope are steep but in opposed direction, the unit goes)
- To check if unit must be slowed down, use only the current slope.

[Min3mat]

that one error and of course minispring should be included bah i love spring the way it is and have tried minispring...it sucks

[Warlord Zsinj]

Kivi, yes, ranges and speed have also been halved.
All units and functions have been halved, the only thing remaining the same size is LOS, which it was decided to be too small in the original Spring.

And min3mat, if the best you can come up with to discount minispring is "it sucks" then I think you don't have a particularly good argument.
Besides, minispring technically doesn't make the OTA units smaller, it makes them the original size they were in the game - which is the way they were meant to be played as. So what you are supporting isn't minispring, but rather "MegaSpring"

[Min3mat]

MegaSpring is cool with me

[Kixxe]

Yea, go megaspring!

Anyway, minispring wouldt do so at all.

As you say, the explosions are smaller. But so is EVRYTHING else.
We are just shrinking the problem. If you resise and rescale, it still ends up whit this problem in the end. unless you shrink the explosions only... or more-.-

(oh, and im not agstin minispring relly... i just dont like the zoommed out mode. If we had it zoomed in bye deafult on the other hand. (to the point that it looks like it does now, that is(hope you understood any of that)))

[Min3mat]

yeah minispring sucks. if you could zoom out further on megaspring then it would simulate pretty much minispring. the only reason i played minispring was to see if i could incorperate more strategy into my play by having a very zoomed out view. just let us zoom out on megaspring!

[Torrasque]

The thing with minispring is that he eat less ressource. So with the same computer, we can play 4times bigger map.

For people like me who don't had a big PC is that I can play epic map.

[Felix the Cat]

I think the build footprints in Minispring haven't been fixed; it's impossible to build a solid wall (or at least it was when I tried), because Spring thinks that the half-sized foritification walls are actually normal size.