NOTA 1.82

Shadowsage · Post by **Shadowsage** » 03 Jun 2007, 03:25

RAI works somewhat with this mod.

gamer17 · Post by **gamer17** » 03 Jun 2007, 03:58

This mod is not listed with the other mods on the wiki

http://spring.clan-sy.com/wiki/Mods

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 03 Jun 2007, 04:09

Page added, feel free to fill it up.

By the by, Thor, as you don't go onto Smoth's site, I might as well ask you here. When I advance the community promotion initiative, is there any particular way you want NOTA to be described and advertised? Do you have any images, supplementary material (Besides the exemplary missions), etcetera I can make use of?

gamer17 · Post by **gamer17** » 03 Jun 2007, 05:35

wheres the page at?

Thor · Post by **Thor** » 03 Jun 2007, 12:56

http://spring.clan-sy.com/wiki/NOTA

nedddiedrow, I think the two big draws of nota are:

-the strategic, supcomish, big-scale gameplay
-the atmospheric, self-consistent feel, that doesn't throw obvious arbitrary rock-paper-scissors balance schemes at you, but rather appears to be a believable world with it's own set of rules.

wow, I'm really tired. I hope that makes some amount of sense. I'll come back to this tomorrow.

Cainen · Post by **Cainen** » 03 Jun 2007, 19:18

There isn't much believability in eighty infantry units being devastated by five mobile anti-ship guns, though.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 03 Jun 2007, 21:38

Thanks, lads.

I actually wouldn't compare it to Supreme Commander. I bought that illustrious title, and am not really pleased with it. The atmosphere is rather minimal and we all have to play in icon mode to do anything. Oh, and defensive structures are hell there.

But yes, I see what you mean. I like NOTA.

Thor · Post by **Thor** » 03 Jun 2007, 22:28

Cainen wrote:There isn't much believability in eighty infantry units being devastated by five mobile anti-ship guns, though.

Actually, anti-ship guns are absolutely terrible against infantry. 5 Anti-ship guns cost almost 3 times more than 80 infantry. And they'll be lucky to kill more than a quarter of those before they are overrun. Do you realize how ridiculously inefficient that is? Now granted, they will be more useful in a stand-off situation, but considering that for the price of one gun you can build about 45 infantry, or 20 light tanks, or 14 medium tanks, it is really not worth it.

If you want to complain about anti-ship guns being overpowered, try pointing out that they are too effective against heavies, which is really the problem. But there wouldn't be much point since that will be fixed next version anyway.

neddiedrow, you're probably right about not comparing it to SupCom. As for supplementary materials, I hope to expand the wiki and perhaps write a more in-depth gameplay guide. I don't know if you could find any use for it, but there is a guide to all the ships in the readme. There is also this guide to the icons:

And here is a trailer I made for nota a while back: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... ta+trailer but again I dont know if you would want to use it as it's not all that great and the quality sucks.

smartie · Post by **smartie** » 04 Jun 2007, 00:02

Oh no, not the antiship gun thing again! Why is it always the antiship guns that everyone says are overpowered. Every time I build them they end up being a waste of money.

smartie · Post by **smartie** » 04 Jun 2007, 00:11

neddiedrow wrote:Thanks, lads.

I actually wouldn't compare it to Supreme Commander. I bought that illustrious title, and am not really pleased with it. The atmosphere is rather minimal and we all have to play in icon mode to do anything. Oh, and defensive structures are hell there.

But yes, I see what you mean. I like NOTA.

I've found that about 95% of the time I'm playing supreme commander I'm in icon mode. GPG could have made the game for 1/10 the cost if they made the entire game in icon mode, and there wouldn't be any difference.

Thor · Post by **Thor** » 04 Jun 2007, 01:13

smartie wrote:Oh no, not the antiship gun thing again! Why is it always the antiship guns that everyone says are overpowered. Every time I build them they end up being a waste of money.

I think it's a psychological thing more than anything else. People don't like always being under fire by a gun that can destroy most units in one hit. They don't realize how much they cost.

If you think anti-ship guns are vastly overpowered, read this:
Suppose you are at a standoff, with both you and your opponent's armies facing off, neither side strong enough to overcome the other's defenses. Your opponent builds an anti-ship gun. For the price of this one gun, he could have built 12-14 medium tanks. But he didn't. That means his army is 12 medium tanks (or equivalent) smaller than it would have been. Instead, he has this one unit which, unlike a squad of tanks, is extremely slow and incapable of decisive offensive or defensive action. What it can do is bombard your troops in this standoff. Should the standoff end, and either side launch a full-out attack on the other, this unit will not be able to make a significant difference, as its firepower/accuracy and hitpoints are too low to contribute much. Also, all of that cost is concentrated in one unit that can easily be taken out by an airstrike, so there is a much greater risk factor.

Now, it starts bombarding your troops. These things have poor accuracy, but a single hit will destroy even a medium tank. Let's say every third shot it kills the equivalent of a medium tank (a pretty generous assumption, since most of its kills will be lower value targets like infantry). It has a reload time of 10 seconds. If your opponent had built the medium tanks instead, he could simply attack at any time and any place, and reasonably expect them to earn back their cost, killing enemy units on average at a ratio of 1:1. So, for the cost of his 12 tanks, he could have expected his enemy to lose the equivalent of 12 tanks as well. However, with the gun, he has no such assurance. Should the enemy suddenly charge, or should an airstrike destroy the gun, he will only have a couple kills in exchange for 12 units' worth of resources for the gun. As this gun bombards your troops, you do nothing. Just sit there and let your units get killed. How long will it take the gun to earn back its cost? At one medium tank (or 190 cost) every 30 seconds, it will take 6 minutes just to reach 12 kills, which he would have been all but guaranteed of getting by buying conventional units instead. During this time, he has: lowered his ability to attack and raid offensively; lowered his ability to respond to assaults and raids, and; made a greater portion of his army-by-cost vulnerable to airstrikes.

That said, I do think they need a bit of a nerf so they won't be as effective against buildings and heavy units, which they are fairly effective against, but it's not the huge problem people make it out to be.

gamer17 · Post by **gamer17** » 04 Jun 2007, 06:22

Have you thought about adding transports that drop 10 or 15 kbots at once?
That would get more people playing a I think

j5mello · Post by **j5mello** » 04 Jun 2007, 06:24

not douable atm with out zwzsg super scripting though im not sure if his super trans work in spring or not...

im sure lua would make it way easier... but ull have to talk to him bout that...

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 04 Jun 2007, 11:23

this mod looks awesome but the start of the game is sooo slow

Thor · Post by **Thor** » 04 Jun 2007, 18:01

Yeah, that's a valid criticism.

Replays are always appreciated, btw.

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 04 Jun 2007, 18:02

thor why dont you host a NOTA game every few nights to build up a fanbase, id play it if there was actually servers

Thor · Post by **Thor** » 04 Jun 2007, 18:16

Will do, starting this weekend, when I'm through with finals.

We're not doing too shabby though

gamer17 · Post by **gamer17** » 04 Jun 2007, 18:39

Thor wrote:Yeah, that's a valid criticism.

Replays are always appreciated, btw.

So you want replays, where do I send them

and what anti-ship guns are you talking about, because the omege anti-ship guns suck

Thor · Post by **Thor** » 04 Jun 2007, 18:46

http://replays.unknown-files.net/

Yes, the omega for Core and perforator for Arm. For whatever reason people keep saying they are way overpowered.

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 04 Jun 2007, 20:51

because most noobs are allergic to making any units that are not either T3 or static defences maybe?

Spring RTS Engine

NOTA 1.82