Is everyone gone?
Moderator: Moderators
Damnit, I was all riled up and ready for your response dragon 
. Discussion, no matter how heated can lead to interesting ideas!
/me has to go pout now...
Boi, it really depends on how the person designed it. If they rearranged the tc then it would be entirely different. Odds are pirates versus zombies and ninjas would be quited different.
For example, quake 1: rise of the pheonix(hard to find but i have a copy if you remember it) plays nothing like quake but it is fun. Or for an even more divergent TC look to quake chess or quake rally.
. Discussion, no matter how heated can lead to interesting ideas! /me has to go pout now...
Boi, it really depends on how the person designed it. If they rearranged the tc then it would be entirely different. Odds are pirates versus zombies and ninjas would be quited different.
For example, quake 1: rise of the pheonix(hard to find but i have a copy if you remember it) plays nothing like quake but it is fun. Or for an even more divergent TC look to quake chess or quake rally.
Spring has:
Bad player retention. The problem is not entirely one of marketing and publicity to bring new people to spring. There are plenty new people coming into spring. Every day I see a load of new people ask how to get the game to work, asking about mods, asking about maps, where to get them, how to join a game etc etc. Rarely does someone reply, or rather, rarely does someone reply to them with something helpful, either because nobody is looking at #main window or because people see it as too much effort, not their responsibility (which it shouldnt be entirely) or really just don't care.
Add to this that if people do reply with help, the person being helped still has to follow a horribly obtuse set of instructions sending them on a journey to an unknown website (pun intended) to search for files they know nothing about, then place these files in the appropriate spring sub directory, then join a game, find out how to download and install the map they need, THEN they have to face the unfortunately large chance of either being forced to spectate or kicked for being too noob. If they finally get in-game and are excited about playing, there is a large chance that 1 or 2 players will "drop" and there will be a quick "re" message from 3 or 4 others before the game, from the new player's perspective, seems to just crash. Wait another few minutes for everyone to ready up again, start and this time it works. He is playing! Then the game desyncs.
After all this, it's not surprising that many think "fuck this shit" and never return to play online.
Spring currently depends mainly on its lobby and forum playerbase to educate newcomers on what-the-fuck spring is all about, how to use it and what the mods are like. This is not efficient in any respect.
Veterans are also leaving for extended periods of time, sometimes even permanently. Why? Because like most RTS, they get boring after a while if the mod/game stays the same and doesn't get updated regularly. Spring doesnt have the luxury of single player campaigns for its mods either, and maintaining an active and growing online community is, even for commercial RTS, certainly one of the toughest objectives.
Veterans also want to show off their skills and compete with other good players for fun times, i.e. ladder and tournaments. Since we no longer have a ladder or a tournament schedule, many, including myself, are really getting bored of playing noobish team games and hosting 1v1's that nobody joins.
AF made a good point about the lobby also being pretty unwelcoming to newcomers. It doesn't look professional, it certainly doesn't appeal to new people and despite the lobby functionality being relatively easy to pick up, this is pretty much because the lobby is so limited in features that there simply isn't much to learn.
So how do we make using spring a more rewarding, less hassle saturated, easy and fun experience?
I think there needs to be a big overhaul or complete replacement of the lobby and associated features (existing and non-existant) including the improvement/integration of lobby map and mod download/install, help news, forums and so on, in order to make spring more welcoming to new people.
If newcomers and indeed all lobby users could download and install maps and mods directly through the lobby, it would be a far easier and less painful experience.
Unite the website with the lobby, and improve both!
I'm not sure how helpful the wiki can be but it may be worth implementing a wiki "browser" into the lobby. If not, then some sort of help service. Along with this, add a frequently updated news page (ideally the home page of this site) which can be toggled on or off (default on) that appears when you start spring lobby. Make people aware of the forums too, perhaps even have a seperate tab for that. You say the forums are not as active as they used to be. Well, I would imagine that a VERY large number of the people who use the lobby regularly have never bothered to even look at these boards. I personally didn't check them for at least the first 6 months I was playing spring mods. Other clients in development have several of these features to my knowledge and they really should be added to whatever becomes the spring lobby bundled with the download.
Waiting around/dedicated hosts:
A large number of games have issues before the game can even start, where there are incompatibilities between player's connections. 10 player game and often at least 1 player will drop, requiring a restart. This is pretty frustrating in spring considering how long it can often take simply to fill your game in the first place. Waiting around is a big problem in spring, for a number of reasons. The size of the playerbase is obviously a factor (bigger player base -> games fill faster) but another is the lack of quality hosts. Bot hosts are a solution but they are not used as well as they could be right now.
If there were a reasonable number of bot hosts for different mods which are hosted 24/7 under some kind of lobby protection, for example, fixed parameters which restrict people from changing the mod or limit the minimum player number, automated lobby rehosting of the bot server if it crashes, and more games hosted at peak times, then the problem of waiting for a game because none are hosted or dropping from a game you've been waiting to play for 30 mins could be almost entirely eliminated.
I imagine that if the community asked itself for people to volunteer dedicated, reliable bot hosts there would be a reasonable turnout.
Noob friendly games and "Buddy system"
Spring mods generally have a pretty steep learning curve, especially the TA based ones, and even with mods that perhaps take less time to learn, the majority of noobs won't learn them well enough in the first few weeks to have as much fun as can be had, and importantly, most won't stick around long enough to learn.
So I think we need noob friendly games. When I first came to spring the majority of games I played, with the exception of those I played with equally noobish friends, were pretty non rewarding and not fun to play. Like any complete noob I just got owned by good players, and fast. Small games where I played lasted a short time and in big team games the veterans just get pissed off because the noobs don't know how to hold their front or help out the team enough. Add to this that the TA resource system which pretty much all spring mods use to some fundamental degree is very unforgiving. Being a noob and starting a game by building a kbot lab then immediately trying to go T2, then 15 minutes later still having no grasp on your economy and watching your units build in 5 minute intervals really wasn't much fun to me, and I imagine many others.
So...first off, introduce games where noobs are welcome to play off against one another. Secondly, introduce a "buddy" system. Another open source project which I have been interested in recently called "Allegiance" seems to make great use of this.
Basically, what happens is that veterans in the community volunteer to take on a "buddy" i.e. a noob or someone who could learn a lot from their buddy, and the veterans stay with their buddy or indeed buddies until they have learned at least the key aspects of how to play. From what I've seen at Allegiance, which also has a very steep learning curve, it can often be as rewarding for the veteran as his buddy, and importantly, it gets newcomers connected and involved straight away, greatly improving the player retention.
It's pretty much a definate that if you associate a newcomer with a friendly regular on the lobby who is willing to teach them, they are much more likely to continue to log in and play games aswell as learn about the community and the online friendships that can be found here.
And additionally, we wouldn't have such a horrendously bad level of average player skill/knowledge. (this community is SATURATED with star noobs just now, and it's often sad to see). We could increase the number of people who can compete in ladders and tournaments by a pretty substantial amount.
Fix desync
Work going into this I'm aware which is good, but I feel it's worth mentioning just for the sake of it :/
Tournament/Ladder system
Been discussed before and Betalord said he'd get round to working on an "integrated ladder and ranking system" but to be honest, I really can't see this being done any time in the short term future. Is there any kind of useable short term solution? Anyone out there willing to knock us up some kind of web based ladder that's functional and easy enough to use that it won't be a complete waste of time? Hell, I'd love the old ladder back right now, even though it wasn't ideal or particularly popular, it's a lot better than waiting around on Betalord for what could be forever.
Bad player retention. The problem is not entirely one of marketing and publicity to bring new people to spring. There are plenty new people coming into spring. Every day I see a load of new people ask how to get the game to work, asking about mods, asking about maps, where to get them, how to join a game etc etc. Rarely does someone reply, or rather, rarely does someone reply to them with something helpful, either because nobody is looking at #main window or because people see it as too much effort, not their responsibility (which it shouldnt be entirely) or really just don't care.
Add to this that if people do reply with help, the person being helped still has to follow a horribly obtuse set of instructions sending them on a journey to an unknown website (pun intended) to search for files they know nothing about, then place these files in the appropriate spring sub directory, then join a game, find out how to download and install the map they need, THEN they have to face the unfortunately large chance of either being forced to spectate or kicked for being too noob. If they finally get in-game and are excited about playing, there is a large chance that 1 or 2 players will "drop" and there will be a quick "re" message from 3 or 4 others before the game, from the new player's perspective, seems to just crash. Wait another few minutes for everyone to ready up again, start and this time it works. He is playing! Then the game desyncs.
After all this, it's not surprising that many think "fuck this shit" and never return to play online.
Spring currently depends mainly on its lobby and forum playerbase to educate newcomers on what-the-fuck spring is all about, how to use it and what the mods are like. This is not efficient in any respect.
Veterans are also leaving for extended periods of time, sometimes even permanently. Why? Because like most RTS, they get boring after a while if the mod/game stays the same and doesn't get updated regularly. Spring doesnt have the luxury of single player campaigns for its mods either, and maintaining an active and growing online community is, even for commercial RTS, certainly one of the toughest objectives.
Veterans also want to show off their skills and compete with other good players for fun times, i.e. ladder and tournaments. Since we no longer have a ladder or a tournament schedule, many, including myself, are really getting bored of playing noobish team games and hosting 1v1's that nobody joins.
AF made a good point about the lobby also being pretty unwelcoming to newcomers. It doesn't look professional, it certainly doesn't appeal to new people and despite the lobby functionality being relatively easy to pick up, this is pretty much because the lobby is so limited in features that there simply isn't much to learn.
So how do we make using spring a more rewarding, less hassle saturated, easy and fun experience?
I think there needs to be a big overhaul or complete replacement of the lobby and associated features (existing and non-existant) including the improvement/integration of lobby map and mod download/install, help news, forums and so on, in order to make spring more welcoming to new people.
If newcomers and indeed all lobby users could download and install maps and mods directly through the lobby, it would be a far easier and less painful experience.
Unite the website with the lobby, and improve both!
I'm not sure how helpful the wiki can be but it may be worth implementing a wiki "browser" into the lobby. If not, then some sort of help service. Along with this, add a frequently updated news page (ideally the home page of this site) which can be toggled on or off (default on) that appears when you start spring lobby. Make people aware of the forums too, perhaps even have a seperate tab for that. You say the forums are not as active as they used to be. Well, I would imagine that a VERY large number of the people who use the lobby regularly have never bothered to even look at these boards. I personally didn't check them for at least the first 6 months I was playing spring mods. Other clients in development have several of these features to my knowledge and they really should be added to whatever becomes the spring lobby bundled with the download.
Waiting around/dedicated hosts:
A large number of games have issues before the game can even start, where there are incompatibilities between player's connections. 10 player game and often at least 1 player will drop, requiring a restart. This is pretty frustrating in spring considering how long it can often take simply to fill your game in the first place. Waiting around is a big problem in spring, for a number of reasons. The size of the playerbase is obviously a factor (bigger player base -> games fill faster) but another is the lack of quality hosts. Bot hosts are a solution but they are not used as well as they could be right now.
If there were a reasonable number of bot hosts for different mods which are hosted 24/7 under some kind of lobby protection, for example, fixed parameters which restrict people from changing the mod or limit the minimum player number, automated lobby rehosting of the bot server if it crashes, and more games hosted at peak times, then the problem of waiting for a game because none are hosted or dropping from a game you've been waiting to play for 30 mins could be almost entirely eliminated.
I imagine that if the community asked itself for people to volunteer dedicated, reliable bot hosts there would be a reasonable turnout.
Noob friendly games and "Buddy system"
Spring mods generally have a pretty steep learning curve, especially the TA based ones, and even with mods that perhaps take less time to learn, the majority of noobs won't learn them well enough in the first few weeks to have as much fun as can be had, and importantly, most won't stick around long enough to learn.
So I think we need noob friendly games. When I first came to spring the majority of games I played, with the exception of those I played with equally noobish friends, were pretty non rewarding and not fun to play. Like any complete noob I just got owned by good players, and fast. Small games where I played lasted a short time and in big team games the veterans just get pissed off because the noobs don't know how to hold their front or help out the team enough. Add to this that the TA resource system which pretty much all spring mods use to some fundamental degree is very unforgiving. Being a noob and starting a game by building a kbot lab then immediately trying to go T2, then 15 minutes later still having no grasp on your economy and watching your units build in 5 minute intervals really wasn't much fun to me, and I imagine many others.
So...first off, introduce games where noobs are welcome to play off against one another. Secondly, introduce a "buddy" system. Another open source project which I have been interested in recently called "Allegiance" seems to make great use of this.
Basically, what happens is that veterans in the community volunteer to take on a "buddy" i.e. a noob or someone who could learn a lot from their buddy, and the veterans stay with their buddy or indeed buddies until they have learned at least the key aspects of how to play. From what I've seen at Allegiance, which also has a very steep learning curve, it can often be as rewarding for the veteran as his buddy, and importantly, it gets newcomers connected and involved straight away, greatly improving the player retention.
It's pretty much a definate that if you associate a newcomer with a friendly regular on the lobby who is willing to teach them, they are much more likely to continue to log in and play games aswell as learn about the community and the online friendships that can be found here.
And additionally, we wouldn't have such a horrendously bad level of average player skill/knowledge. (this community is SATURATED with star noobs just now, and it's often sad to see). We could increase the number of people who can compete in ladders and tournaments by a pretty substantial amount.
Fix desync
Work going into this I'm aware which is good, but I feel it's worth mentioning just for the sake of it :/
Tournament/Ladder system
Been discussed before and Betalord said he'd get round to working on an "integrated ladder and ranking system" but to be honest, I really can't see this being done any time in the short term future. Is there any kind of useable short term solution? Anyone out there willing to knock us up some kind of web based ladder that's functional and easy enough to use that it won't be a complete waste of time? Hell, I'd love the old ladder back right now, even though it wasn't ideal or particularly popular, it's a lot better than waiting around on Betalord for what could be forever.
Last edited by DemO on 15 May 2007, 19:19, edited 1 time in total.
The old ladder could be started up again, just need someone to run it.DemO wrote: Tournament/Ladder system
Been discussed before and Betalord said he'd get round to working on an "integrated ladder and ranking system" but to be honest, I really can't see this being done any time in the short term future. Is there any kind of useable short term solution? Anyone out there willing to knock us up some kind of web based ladder that's functional and easy enough to use that it won't be a complete waste of time? Hell, I'd love the old ladder back right now, even though it wasn't ideal or particularly popular, it's a lot better than waiting around on Betalord for what could be forever.
The distinction needs to be made between content improvement and gameplay modification. F.ex (the classic example) AA had some good iterations (2.13-2.15) and then the changes just became really, ridiculous and turned people off.DemO wrote:Veterans are also leaving for extended periods of time, sometimes even permanently. Why? Because like most RTS, they get boring after a while if the mod/game stays the same and doesn't get updated regularly.
[...]
Veterans also want to show off their skills and compete with other good players for fun times, i.e. ladder and tournaments.
And an effective tournament ladder can only come about once gameplay has stabilized and the updates are content-oriented; that is, map packs, graphics, bufixes, etc. Gameplay needs to be largely left alone after it converges on a reasonable maximum (even if local), and this IMHO is one of the flaws of the open model for games. There needs to be a benevolent, intelligent and wily dictator of sorts in charge of gameplay modifications, and he needs to realize when the gameplay is solid and not tinker with it, instead focusing his and his team's energies on the aforementioned content updates.
Chris Taylor served this function for OTA. The game stabilized in near its final form after Core Contingency was released, with only the occasional bugfix making its way out of Cavedog's HQ along with some really tame, non game-breaking units.
Chris Taylor left after Battle Tactics IIRC, and was not around to make Kingdoms. And what did Kingdoms have? Really, really shitty gameplay.
Spring SP isn't GPLed I thought?AF wrote:- bundle Spring SP with the installer
This is an advanced feature, I do not think it should be bundled. (just like TASServer isn't bundled.)AF wrote:- perhaps bundle an autohost bot?
Good point. Any volunteers?AF wrote:- redo the html help documents that come with spring so they look pretty, and arent out of date.
If things go as I want there will be one new map in 0.75. I had a discussion with Lathan and smoth about feature pack but ATM I'm not yet really convinced it's worth the hassle (if you do a quick calculation you can see that quite a lot of maps have to be made using these features to make it worth it (old maps won't be rereleased I assume), and thats just in terms of downloaded bytes. Hence I suggested making a public (FTP?) repository of features for mappers to use instead).improve the content that comes with spring, namely the maps, this looks like tis already in progress, tobi already outline dplans to include a mass of map features with spring to help mappers make use of more map features.
aflobby isn't GPL right? The other ones are much less polished (or just not finished) then TASClient, TASClient is known to work fine.- Replace tasclient with aflobby/lobby++/spring lobby
Work is being done on this, and not just by you. (not sure you're still doing anything on it though?)- Replace this website with something easier to use
+1- Sort out the wiki
I don't agree fully with this. Not advertising to the masses on the interwebs sounds fine, but if you have the chance to advertise it at places like LAN parties or developers' meetings, where you can give direct feedback on questions/problems, then go ahead and try to get people to play or even help developing it.And remember, dont advertise spring untill its ready which it most certainly isnt.
I'll make some threads about certain stuffs, got some ideas.
Also these very longterm ideas given in the entire thread are nice, but unless you really make work of it they will just dust away on some todo list. TBH we need relatively easy improvements ATM, or break down a bigger goal in multiple smaller ones, so it's easier for a new contributor to pick up after the previous one left.
Last edited by Tobi on 15 May 2007, 20:11, edited 1 time in total.
Someone already said that the interface is not really user friendly and i agree.
A newbie shouldn't be asking "how do i get to play this game". Its just wrong :S. From a newbies perspective:
you download a game.
You get into the lobby.
And you're left to wonder how do you get to play this game.
If you havent quit in 5 mins, your going to be told that you need to download the mods/maps from some site. Why do i need to do that? didnt i already download the game?
And if the player ever stays for longer than the first few test games with random ai on xta on mars/small divide. He will notice that there is _NO_ actual life in this game. How do i get to play ladder games? Is there even a ladder? a hall of fame? a ranking system?
Like Demo said, you cant compare your skills. Your just someone playing some game in some random lobby with random people. I dont want to feel like im a part of a gray mass.
A profile page like in wc3 would be a awesome thing. Showing player's played games, win/loss ratios, recent replays(?) and that kind of stuff could easily keep people playing, as odd as it sounds. Just something, to compare your skills to other players. That, and making the game more noob-friendly.
A newbie shouldn't be asking "how do i get to play this game". Its just wrong :S. From a newbies perspective:
you download a game.
You get into the lobby.
And you're left to wonder how do you get to play this game.
If you havent quit in 5 mins, your going to be told that you need to download the mods/maps from some site. Why do i need to do that? didnt i already download the game?
And if the player ever stays for longer than the first few test games with random ai on xta on mars/small divide. He will notice that there is _NO_ actual life in this game. How do i get to play ladder games? Is there even a ladder? a hall of fame? a ranking system?
Like Demo said, you cant compare your skills. Your just someone playing some game in some random lobby with random people. I dont want to feel like im a part of a gray mass.
A profile page like in wc3 would be a awesome thing. Showing player's played games, win/loss ratios, recent replays(?) and that kind of stuff could easily keep people playing, as odd as it sounds. Just something, to compare your skills to other players. That, and making the game more noob-friendly.
AFLobby is not GPL atm because it hasnt reached beta 1, aka the point where I pick a license, for which I'm probably going to go LGPL, but dont count on that. You have the option to make exceptions and already do so with regards to AI.
An issue is that there are a lot of people who have the opinion that tasclient does not do fine. There are numerous people who keep asking me in private to hurry up because they want aflobby, and when I ask them why, its not because they like me or they want aflobby specifically its because aflobby != tasclient and theyre sick of tasclient and would switch regardless of who provided the next lobby.
I like the buddies system, I've already got a wiki integrated into aflobby at http://www.darkstars.co.uk/wiclear/ and all the newer lobbies have msn/aim style contact lists planned.
As for wether I did anything on the website, I have an exam tomorrow, and coursework due on friday then 4 months of time with no work to do, no exams, and thats when I've planned to do all my Spring/CE projects. So dont be surprised if it continues to appear as if I've done nothing then things start getting done next week. Its a matter of priorities.
And Spring SP is GPL/LGPL iirc. There's source code on UF/FU for it which will probably say anyway, and all the new lobbys plan to includes singleplayer functionality at some point.
Aslo because tasclient is GPL, altarics fork and iamacups forks are also GPL by nature.
Also, I'd like to make clear a few things about the ladder system
Betalord has been saying he was making a ladder system for at least a year and a half now. Each time he said it, he was talking to someone who had a rival ladder system, in order to discourage them from making a system he already had planned anyway. The first time because wasp had built a working ladder site, the second time because iamacup built spring league, the third time because spring league resurfaced.
In all the 1 and a half years hes been saying about this no designs have surfaced, no code, no supporting infrastructure in tasclient and the lobby server, nothing at all to suggest any work of any kind has been done on this. Right now it appears betalord ahs yet to start, and I think we'd be best cutting our losses and assuming he isnt going to deliver, because even if he did work on it hed be doing it alone and chances our any community effort will deliver long before he can.
An issue is that there are a lot of people who have the opinion that tasclient does not do fine. There are numerous people who keep asking me in private to hurry up because they want aflobby, and when I ask them why, its not because they like me or they want aflobby specifically its because aflobby != tasclient and theyre sick of tasclient and would switch regardless of who provided the next lobby.
I like the buddies system, I've already got a wiki integrated into aflobby at http://www.darkstars.co.uk/wiclear/ and all the newer lobbies have msn/aim style contact lists planned.
As for wether I did anything on the website, I have an exam tomorrow, and coursework due on friday then 4 months of time with no work to do, no exams, and thats when I've planned to do all my Spring/CE projects. So dont be surprised if it continues to appear as if I've done nothing then things start getting done next week. Its a matter of priorities.
And Spring SP is GPL/LGPL iirc. There's source code on UF/FU for it which will probably say anyway, and all the new lobbys plan to includes singleplayer functionality at some point.
Aslo because tasclient is GPL, altarics fork and iamacups forks are also GPL by nature.
Also, I'd like to make clear a few things about the ladder system
Betalord has been saying he was making a ladder system for at least a year and a half now. Each time he said it, he was talking to someone who had a rival ladder system, in order to discourage them from making a system he already had planned anyway. The first time because wasp had built a working ladder site, the second time because iamacup built spring league, the third time because spring league resurfaced.
In all the 1 and a half years hes been saying about this no designs have surfaced, no code, no supporting infrastructure in tasclient and the lobby server, nothing at all to suggest any work of any kind has been done on this. Right now it appears betalord ahs yet to start, and I think we'd be best cutting our losses and assuming he isnt going to deliver, because even if he did work on it hed be doing it alone and chances our any community effort will deliver long before he can.
Last edited by AF on 16 May 2007, 19:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Tim-the-maniac
- Posts: 250
- Joined: 22 Jul 2006, 19:58
AndroidX (maker of springsp) says he will probably release next version under GLP so it could be released with spring if wantedTobi wrote:Spring SP isn't GPLed I thought?AF wrote:- bundle Spring SP with the installer
E: actually he said LGLP
Last edited by Tim-the-maniac on 15 May 2007, 22:37, edited 1 time in total.
Althrough I agree on all the suggestions on this thread I'd still like to point out a thing.
Spring is in Beta. Though none of the players feel like beta testers, which they practicly are.
For most of the things mentioned to be improved, they are based on the thing that Spring behaves like it's an beta. countless little aspecs go back to the time they were created when the community was small and close. The enitre 'TA' aspect was the first goal of Spring. which it has reaches some time ago. bet it was never corrected after it. The wonky TASpring Lobby was, as I think, never really made to support an entire huge community playing around 24 diffrent games (which we call mods).
I'm not very concerned about the player base. they are a chaoticly bunch. filled with people who feel little connection with the project. they just 'play' the game, which is kinda odd for a game in beta stage.
I am concerned about the lack of new blood. indeed the are little new devs. and since command engine started, we lost a bunch of them.
I'm affraid the community is grown to large to change. You can make a new mod. and the 'community' won't like it. becouse they want TA. The time a pee-wee riot worked is over.
Maybe Spring should behave like it has a large community (meaning, closed version testing, and implanting numerous things mentiuoned in this thread). going on like a small beta staged project obviously is not working any more. (regretably)
oh and btw. Spring Client is also TAspring client with a few additions (like inbuild UF serach function). It works without bugs and the best of it is the name change
Spring is in Beta. Though none of the players feel like beta testers, which they practicly are.
For most of the things mentioned to be improved, they are based on the thing that Spring behaves like it's an beta. countless little aspecs go back to the time they were created when the community was small and close. The enitre 'TA' aspect was the first goal of Spring. which it has reaches some time ago. bet it was never corrected after it. The wonky TASpring Lobby was, as I think, never really made to support an entire huge community playing around 24 diffrent games (which we call mods).
I'm not very concerned about the player base. they are a chaoticly bunch. filled with people who feel little connection with the project. they just 'play' the game, which is kinda odd for a game in beta stage.
I am concerned about the lack of new blood. indeed the are little new devs. and since command engine started, we lost a bunch of them.
I'm affraid the community is grown to large to change. You can make a new mod. and the 'community' won't like it. becouse they want TA. The time a pee-wee riot worked is over.
Maybe Spring should behave like it has a large community (meaning, closed version testing, and implanting numerous things mentiuoned in this thread). going on like a small beta staged project obviously is not working any more. (regretably)
oh and btw. Spring Client is also TAspring client with a few additions (like inbuild UF serach function). It works without bugs and the best of it is the name change
Last edited by Zenka on 16 May 2007, 10:13, edited 1 time in total.
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1v0ry_k1ng
- Posts: 4656
- Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 10:24
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
I think that I dont want people who dont have the patience/intelligence to learn how to use such a simple engine withing the comunity... :)
But yeah we badly need more players. Maybe we should aim for the people who dont wanna to waste money on pc games or TA lovers that are desesperated to find a way to prolongue their love.
And once we get a lot of people I think even the not-TA mods will have a chance.
But yeah we badly need more players. Maybe we should aim for the people who dont wanna to waste money on pc games or TA lovers that are desesperated to find a way to prolongue their love.
And once we get a lot of people I think even the not-TA mods will have a chance.
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FoeOfTheBee
- Posts: 557
- Joined: 12 May 2005, 18:26
DemO wrote: Tournament/Ladder system
Been discussed before and Betalord said he'd get round to working on an "integrated ladder and ranking system" but to be honest, I really can't see this being done any time in the short term future. Is there any kind of useable short term solution? Anyone out there willing to knock us up some kind of web based ladder that's functional and easy enough to use that it won't be a complete waste of time? Hell, I'd love the old ladder back right now, even though it wasn't ideal or particularly popular, it's a lot better than waiting around on Betalord for what could be forever.
http://spring.nfshost.com/ladder/