Kernel Panic
Moderator: Content Developer
Or you could go all crazy with get GROUND_HEIGHT(..) to have the kernel script maps out the topology of its surrounding and determine which way would make best exit..... hmm sounds good and feasible actually, I just have to check what get GROUND_HEIGHT(..) return when out of map, but I could make the kernel determine in which of the four cardinal direction the floor stays at the same height longest.
couldn't the rotating be done a lot more efficiently in LUA? i checked, but couldn't find a callback feature for the position building mode.
i don't think adding more units would add to the game. we have infantry, artillery and tanks, so all mobile ground roles are filled. i don't like the idea of static defenses. the obvious addition would be air or sea, but i don't think that it would make kps gameplay better. the simplicity is the whole point, after all.
the problems i see are the the walls. walls are almost useless, as they can be crushed by anything but bits. i think walls should either be removed, or changed to add a reclaim dynamic where you need assemblers to reclaim them. or maybe only assemblers can crush them?
i think mines are useless on marble madness, but can be used well on speedball 16 way.
edit: i updated the first post. it now includes recommended maps, and is organized a bit differently. With 50 edits it quite probably is the most edited post on these entire forums.
edit2: I started a Kernel Panic Tournament thread. Sign up and come play!
edit3: Speedball 16 way is a really great map for kernel panic. 3 way FFA on it is pure pwnage. and the 6 player ffa we had was absolutely action-packed and supersweet.
i don't think adding more units would add to the game. we have infantry, artillery and tanks, so all mobile ground roles are filled. i don't like the idea of static defenses. the obvious addition would be air or sea, but i don't think that it would make kps gameplay better. the simplicity is the whole point, after all.
the problems i see are the the walls. walls are almost useless, as they can be crushed by anything but bits. i think walls should either be removed, or changed to add a reclaim dynamic where you need assemblers to reclaim them. or maybe only assemblers can crush them?
i think mines are useless on marble madness, but can be used well on speedball 16 way.
edit: i updated the first post. it now includes recommended maps, and is organized a bit differently. With 50 edits it quite probably is the most edited post on these entire forums.
edit2: I started a Kernel Panic Tournament thread. Sign up and come play!
edit3: Speedball 16 way is a really great map for kernel panic. 3 way FFA on it is pure pwnage. and the 6 player ffa we had was absolutely action-packed and supersweet.
Honestly, I think KP's unit set is fine... I'd agree that removing the mine/antimine is a good idea, and don't like the concept of the "Evil Bit".
Personally, I think KP should be kept in it's present, deliciously simple form as the primary mod.
If additional complexity is desired, I'd either
a) make a second, derivative mod of KP with oodles of wierd units, or
b) add more factions.
Personally, I think KP should be kept in it's present, deliciously simple form as the primary mod.
If additional complexity is desired, I'd either
a) make a second, derivative mod of KP with oodles of wierd units, or
b) add more factions.
I have found something that makes playing Kernel Panic about ten times as fun!
Listen to Nectarine Demoscene Radio while playing Kernel Panic!
(direct link to stream)
Remember those loading screens the old warez releases had? Remember some of them had music? Well, the demoscene developed out of the creators of those things. And Radio Nectarine is about the most Kernel Panic music ever. Believe me! Try it! I haven't lost once since I started!
Listen to Nectarine Demoscene Radio while playing Kernel Panic!
(direct link to stream)
Remember those loading screens the old warez releases had? Remember some of them had music? Well, the demoscene developed out of the creators of those things. And Radio Nectarine is about the most Kernel Panic music ever. Believe me! Try it! I haven't lost once since I started!
Suggestion: The walls and mines are kind of kludgy, they seem to detract from the simplicity of the rest of the mod. Maybe try to make them more important, or remove them. My suggestion:
Double or tripple the mine blast radius and damadge. Double or tripple the build time. Set a limit of 3 per player, and have them self-d if they are the only thing left. Remove the anti-mine completely - it's sort of ackward. Basically make it so a mine is really felt as an important unit. BOOOOM, Oh crap! I walked into that one!
Make the walls take signifigantly longer to build. Make them unreclaimable and uncrushable. (Remove the reclaim button from the UI, no longer needed). Make walls vulnerable to firepower instead of crushing, but make them very tough, so they actually slow an advancing army down. If this becomes too porcine, raise cost.
Not trying to tell you what to do, just a wild suggestion. Ignore at will.
Double or tripple the mine blast radius and damadge. Double or tripple the build time. Set a limit of 3 per player, and have them self-d if they are the only thing left. Remove the anti-mine completely - it's sort of ackward. Basically make it so a mine is really felt as an important unit. BOOOOM, Oh crap! I walked into that one!
Make the walls take signifigantly longer to build. Make them unreclaimable and uncrushable. (Remove the reclaim button from the UI, no longer needed). Make walls vulnerable to firepower instead of crushing, but make them very tough, so they actually slow an advancing army down. If this becomes too porcine, raise cost.
Not trying to tell you what to do, just a wild suggestion. Ignore at will.
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LathanStanley
- Posts: 1429
- Joined: 20 Jun 2005, 05:16
THAT STREAM IS TERRIBLY MADE OF EPIC FUCKING WTF FAIL!.Boirunner wrote:I have found something that makes playing Kernel Panic about ten times as fun!
Listen to Nectarine Demoscene Radio while playing Kernel Panic!
(direct link to stream)
Remember those loading screens the old warez releases had? Remember some of them had music? Well, the demoscene developed out of the creators of those things. And Radio Nectarine is about the most Kernel Panic music ever. Believe me! Try it! I haven't lost once since I started!
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MrSpontaneous
- Posts: 242
- Joined: 09 Sep 2005, 22:39
In regards to the "needing another unit" thoughts, I think this game is missing a single role, that of the "change up" unit. Not sure what it would be but something along the lines of unit that removes bytes killed by bites. Or an exploding bit that looks like normal bits etc.
The exact nature of said unit is not entirely important. The point being that this role seams like it should be filled in some way.
In other news, this is the most enjoyable RTS I have played in. . .years I think. . .wow I think it really is. . .
good job
The exact nature of said unit is not entirely important. The point being that this role seams like it should be filled in some way.
In other news, this is the most enjoyable RTS I have played in. . .years I think. . .wow I think it really is. . .
good job
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MrSpontaneous
- Posts: 242
- Joined: 09 Sep 2005, 22:39
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MrSpontaneous
- Posts: 242
- Joined: 09 Sep 2005, 22:39
most definitely, and it fills the role of artillery nicely, noticed no special preference for its use against bits or bytes.
I am not saying a specific unit, I am stating that I believe the role of the "monkey wrench" unit is missing. This may or may not be true or the role may not add to things, but it seams so/it would to me.
A "side ways" unit so to speak, like the knight in chess.
I am not saying a specific unit, I am stating that I believe the role of the "monkey wrench" unit is missing. This may or may not be true or the role may not add to things, but it seams so/it would to me.
A "side ways" unit so to speak, like the knight in chess.
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MrSpontaneous
- Posts: 242
- Joined: 09 Sep 2005, 22:39
again, my post was not about a specific unit being needed to destroy bytes. It was an example I thought would clarified my point but seams to have merely mystified it.
My statement was that I think the game could have another role filled with another unit.
Said unit is not being stated by me. I believe that the role of "change up" "monkey wrench" "side ways" type units, is vacant, and one could be created to improve game play with out disrupting the minimalist style of the game.
The following is not related to my above statement
I think that the debug, is, unnecessary, and could probably be removed with little impact to the game.
My statement was that I think the game could have another role filled with another unit.
Said unit is not being stated by me. I believe that the role of "change up" "monkey wrench" "side ways" type units, is vacant, and one could be created to improve game play with out disrupting the minimalist style of the game.
The following is not related to my above statement
I think that the debug, is, unnecessary, and could probably be removed with little impact to the game.
Obviously, if the mine is there the debug needs to be there too. Personally, I think the mines could be removed without hurting the gameplay.KDR_11k wrote:It was added because I didn't want to issue reclaim orders on dozens of radar dots to clear a minefield and because reclaiming mines takes too long.
I think removing the mine not only would not hurt the gameplay, but would even benefit it. Currently, the existence of mines make it so you're better keeping your bits at home than sending them forward and risk losing them to mines. Because of the special nature of Kernel Panic, where basically the only way to gain the upper hand after all geos have been claimed is to lose less units than the enemy, we can't let anything that allow players to kill units without costing any socket workertime.
However, in all games I had so far mines played a minor role, and maybe the reward of taking sockets back from the enemy is enough an incencitive to get people moving forward despite mines.
Limiting mines to 3 seem a bit too extreme to me, it's hard to know where the enemy will precisely pass, so 3 is clearly not enough. Mines should already self-d when they are the only unit left.
The debugger currently seem useless to me. You have to know precisely where mines are, and to move an assembler here without detonating the mines to build the debugger, while enemies are probably still coming. Well, so, debugger seem very unlikely to be used in a real game to me.
However, I'm always unwilling to remove nice units that KDR_11k spend some time making, plus he might not know better than me about their role, and since they don't seem to hurt gameplay, I kept them. For next version, I was planning to limit mines to 32, if possible remove their friendly fire and increase their detonation range and aoe. And to double, if not more, the radius of the debugger, so you don't have to build it so close to the mines.
Walls on the other hand I have no trouble keeping, as long as they're easy to build and easier to remove. They're good for blocking bits (which becomes the most common unit as the socket/kernel ratio increase), yet even if a player covered half a map with walls, this wouldn't get boring since bytes cut through walls with such ease.
I really disagree about making walls costly, uncrushable, and hard to take down. I would make walling long section impossible. And walls that you have to fire an hour at to pass don't make fun games. I much prefer the complete opposite vision of walls that are cheap and easy to build en masse anywhere, yet easy to remove as well. If I changed anything to wall, it would be lowering their buildtime, (or making them selfbuild, is that already possible?), and making them taller so that they block shots (which KDR_11k wanted to but couldn't because then walls prevents shooting next to them blabla collision sphere blabla fbi tag to shoot through blabla).
Otherwise I'm currently against adding any new units, save maybe the evil bit, which would not be a buildable unit but instead a unit that evolve out of a normal bit under certain very rare circumstances. trepan posted a morphing LUA script, and between that and BOS script, it sounds possible to make it so one bit becomes evil when the situation becomes very dire. Balancing the precise condition triggering that, to make it fun and not abusable, to make it not totally useless yet not so useful who lose win, should be quite challenging!
However, in all games I had so far mines played a minor role, and maybe the reward of taking sockets back from the enemy is enough an incencitive to get people moving forward despite mines.
Limiting mines to 3 seem a bit too extreme to me, it's hard to know where the enemy will precisely pass, so 3 is clearly not enough. Mines should already self-d when they are the only unit left.
The debugger currently seem useless to me. You have to know precisely where mines are, and to move an assembler here without detonating the mines to build the debugger, while enemies are probably still coming. Well, so, debugger seem very unlikely to be used in a real game to me.
However, I'm always unwilling to remove nice units that KDR_11k spend some time making, plus he might not know better than me about their role, and since they don't seem to hurt gameplay, I kept them. For next version, I was planning to limit mines to 32, if possible remove their friendly fire and increase their detonation range and aoe. And to double, if not more, the radius of the debugger, so you don't have to build it so close to the mines.
Walls on the other hand I have no trouble keeping, as long as they're easy to build and easier to remove. They're good for blocking bits (which becomes the most common unit as the socket/kernel ratio increase), yet even if a player covered half a map with walls, this wouldn't get boring since bytes cut through walls with such ease.
I really disagree about making walls costly, uncrushable, and hard to take down. I would make walling long section impossible. And walls that you have to fire an hour at to pass don't make fun games. I much prefer the complete opposite vision of walls that are cheap and easy to build en masse anywhere, yet easy to remove as well. If I changed anything to wall, it would be lowering their buildtime, (or making them selfbuild, is that already possible?), and making them taller so that they block shots (which KDR_11k wanted to but couldn't because then walls prevents shooting next to them blabla collision sphere blabla fbi tag to shoot through blabla).
Otherwise I'm currently against adding any new units, save maybe the evil bit, which would not be a buildable unit but instead a unit that evolve out of a normal bit under certain very rare circumstances. trepan posted a morphing LUA script, and between that and BOS script, it sounds possible to make it so one bit becomes evil when the situation becomes very dire. Balancing the precise condition triggering that, to make it fun and not abusable, to make it not totally useless yet not so useful who lose win, should be quite challenging!
Thanks for the map! I want to play a six way ffa on this so bad it hurts.TradeMark wrote:New map:
http://spring.unknown-files.net/file/28 ... tar_6_Way/