Proper animation!
Moderator: Moderators
Proper animation!
Since every feature request gets told to "just use Lua" now, does that leave enough time for implementing an animation system that can meaningfully interface with a 3d application like Blender?
Re: Proper animation!
heh...KDR_11k wrote:Since every feature request gets told to "just use Lua"
<OT>No need to be angry 
It just so happens that the new Lua bindings are quite flexible and make a lot of things once impossible easy if not downright trivial; of course, there are still things that are impossible, but you BOS wizards have learned to creatively work around limitations, so why not try to work with Lua? ;p</OT>
It just so happens that the new Lua bindings are quite flexible and make a lot of things once impossible easy if not downright trivial; of course, there are still things that are impossible, but you BOS wizards have learned to creatively work around limitations, so why not try to work with Lua? ;p</OT>
Well, I don't speak for everybody by any means, but I'm waiting to see the next version and a lot more example code to work with, before I devote much time to this "clean way" stuff.
The problem that I and I suspect all of the other major modders have is that we're very busy getting everything else done for our projects, and a lot of this LUA stuff just isn't jelling into concrete tools we actually need.
I've asked the community to start looking at serious stuff, because I know what I'd *like* in the future (a proper guided Tutorial, upgrade system for units, and a single-player campaign construction system with a GUI, for starters) that is probably possible to do with LUA, but nobody wants to touch this USEFUL stuff... instead they keep writing yet more pretty Widgets and one-off crap that isn't addressing the gameplay issues that the people actually making gameplay need. In short, we're not getting on this boat yet because:
A. We lack the time.
B. We have to learn yet-another scripting language. Which also takes time.
C. There aren't very many well-commented examples to work with yet.
D. Most of the well-commented examples are for visual stuff that's neat but isn't addressing the core gameplay needs we're most interested in.
In short, call us lazy or whatever, but you know it's not true. I'm building a project with over 100 units/buildings/whatever, and that's a seriously large investment of free time and energy, and I simply don't have TIME to sit down and ALSO be a groundbreaking LUA coder right now! I wish that people would start realizing that we're kind've grumpy and a little bit dismissive about this stuff because we know what we want, and we aren't getting it, and so we're going to have to build it ourselves in a few weeks/months/whenever-our-projects-are-advanced-and-basically-finished. It's not that we don't see the potential here, it's that it's been happening while most of us were already in the middle of giant projects, and I dunno about Smoth or other folks, but if I stop in the middle to learn this, I've added months to my development time and sidetracked myself for technology that isn't even available in a public release of Spring yet. It's not an acceptable place to be at. If I was starting a brand-new mod, I'd probably START with the LUA code, but that's not where I'm at right now. I feel guilty that I can't just jump right onto this, but if I do, I will slow down my project, and too many other people are counting on me to get work done to do that to them, frankly.
The problem that I and I suspect all of the other major modders have is that we're very busy getting everything else done for our projects, and a lot of this LUA stuff just isn't jelling into concrete tools we actually need.
I've asked the community to start looking at serious stuff, because I know what I'd *like* in the future (a proper guided Tutorial, upgrade system for units, and a single-player campaign construction system with a GUI, for starters) that is probably possible to do with LUA, but nobody wants to touch this USEFUL stuff... instead they keep writing yet more pretty Widgets and one-off crap that isn't addressing the gameplay issues that the people actually making gameplay need. In short, we're not getting on this boat yet because:
A. We lack the time.
B. We have to learn yet-another scripting language. Which also takes time.
C. There aren't very many well-commented examples to work with yet.
D. Most of the well-commented examples are for visual stuff that's neat but isn't addressing the core gameplay needs we're most interested in.
In short, call us lazy or whatever, but you know it's not true. I'm building a project with over 100 units/buildings/whatever, and that's a seriously large investment of free time and energy, and I simply don't have TIME to sit down and ALSO be a groundbreaking LUA coder right now! I wish that people would start realizing that we're kind've grumpy and a little bit dismissive about this stuff because we know what we want, and we aren't getting it, and so we're going to have to build it ourselves in a few weeks/months/whenever-our-projects-are-advanced-and-basically-finished. It's not that we don't see the potential here, it's that it's been happening while most of us were already in the middle of giant projects, and I dunno about Smoth or other folks, but if I stop in the middle to learn this, I've added months to my development time and sidetracked myself for technology that isn't even available in a public release of Spring yet. It's not an acceptable place to be at. If I was starting a brand-new mod, I'd probably START with the LUA code, but that's not where I'm at right now. I feel guilty that I can't just jump right onto this, but if I do, I will slow down my project, and too many other people are counting on me to get work done to do that to them, frankly.
Maybe its time for mod groups to try recruiting specialized lua coders. Its logical that modders (=moddelers/texturers etc) dont want to program, its not their core skill.
But the lua UI showed that there is quite a lot of community lua potential, so getting that into a mod group would really solve this problem. Its also how its done in commercial games.
But the lua UI showed that there is quite a lot of community lua potential, so getting that into a mod group would really solve this problem. Its also how its done in commercial games.
WTH ALL DUE RESPECT:
Lua is a hacky work around, hard coded engine features are better. I would rather write a patch then write the lua for some of the things I request. ALSO DO NOT generalize all of the "TA MODING COMMUNITY" that is really really really condescending of you.
Hardcoded is not as bad as some patchy plugin that I am going to use in my mod.
FURTHERMORE, I am not just some modeler or artist... in fact I FREQUENTLY say I am not. I PREFER code. However, I have yet to meet someone online who can do the work I need as far as graphics, in a style I find suitable. Yeah, if I let my university work slip, I could probably write some patches and of course that obviously would be better then lua. little lua modules here and there are not the solution to everything. I will fight that mentality tooth and nail!
Lua is a hacky work around, hard coded engine features are better. I would rather write a patch then write the lua for some of the things I request. ALSO DO NOT generalize all of the "TA MODING COMMUNITY" that is really really really condescending of you.
Hardcoded is not as bad as some patchy plugin that I am going to use in my mod.
FURTHERMORE, I am not just some modeler or artist... in fact I FREQUENTLY say I am not. I PREFER code. However, I have yet to meet someone online who can do the work I need as far as graphics, in a style I find suitable. Yeah, if I let my university work slip, I could probably write some patches and of course that obviously would be better then lua. little lua modules here and there are not the solution to everything. I will fight that mentality tooth and nail!
I mean seriously, yes, we can do many new things with LUA! I am VERY EXCITED ABOUT IT! When the next solar eclipse happens and the planets are aligned, we will see version 75b and we can do some lua work. BELIEVE ME I AM EXCITED ABOUT IT!
LUA is going to give us MANY MANY new powerful methods of accomplishing MANY MANY things. However, it is not going to be any less of a hacky work around rather then actual engine functionality!
LUA is going to give us MANY MANY new powerful methods of accomplishing MANY MANY things. However, it is not going to be any less of a hacky work around rather then actual engine functionality!
Tell me about it! We've been underground for so long that making shit with provided tools is a completely foreign concept. Using tools "the man" has given me is just too radical a concept >_>.jcnossen wrote:Thats the problem with ta modding community... people are used to faking and hacking around stuff instead of actually making it in a clean way.
It's why I'm almost sad that almost all game companies nowadays are shipping good modding tools with their games... fewer and fewer clever hacks and nutty, yet functional, ideas.
Not true. The engine code needs to take *every* FBI tag into account for all mods, whereas a lua script can be made for a single mod, which allows much more simplification.However, it is not going to be any less of a hacky work around rather then actual engine functionality!
And besides that, if you want something actually done, you better use lua because trepan is the only person actually still working on spring (Aside from patchers). He can't implement all these requests, i doubt even a 5 man team could :)
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Warlord Zsinj
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