New ranking system design
Moderator: Moderators
ranks tend not to actually play a part save in balancing out teams, players are only rejected when they're 1 rank and everybody else are star ranks mod elite players, and even then a lot of good players like to host stacked games by doing star+star vs 1st rank + 4th rank etc using clan teams as an excuse...
You are being rather unfair, though you have some good points. Most of the clans that did engage in that behaviour are either unpopular or inactive.AF wrote:ranks tend not to actually play a part save in balancing out teams, players are only rejected when they're 1 rank and everybody else are star ranks mod elite players, and even then a lot of good players like to host stacked games by doing star+star vs 1st rank + 4th rank etc using clan teams as an excuse...
Not quite. Some clans have 2 or 3 members that actively do this whenever the other clan members are offline.
And most games these days are 1v1' or XvX with the two teams balanced out according to rank.
Remember KnoX games of XTA? They where balanced out via rank to equal games despite KnoX being much much much more experienced, and each one having more than all the others non-KnoX's combined? Nobody in those games seemed bothered by that, and it even lead to KnoX disbanding.
And most games these days are 1v1' or XvX with the two teams balanced out according to rank.
Remember KnoX games of XTA? They where balanced out via rank to equal games despite KnoX being much much much more experienced, and each one having more than all the others non-KnoX's combined? Nobody in those games seemed bothered by that, and it even lead to KnoX disbanding.
What about XvY games (2v3, 2v4, 3v4 etc?)
Also about the team inbalance. I personally wouldnt like to team up with people i do not know.
BUT
In wc3 there is a system to play either arranged team games with friends or random team games. Random just selects a few people who are waiting for a game and stacks them up into 2 teams in a completely random matter. Could this be what your after in separating the clan players?
Also about the team inbalance. I personally wouldnt like to team up with people i do not know.
BUT
In wc3 there is a system to play either arranged team games with friends or random team games. Random just selects a few people who are waiting for a game and stacks them up into 2 teams in a completely random matter. Could this be what your after in separating the clan players?
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Ya know, in EE, many times I will take a complete noob on my team rather than my friends simply for the fact that a balanced and fair match is more fun.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy playing on the smae team as other EE guys, but if EE members were to team up against others it would be a slaughter.
If I can help it I will try to keep said noob out of harm's way while he gets familiar with the mod and the interface.
Surely I can't be the only one in spring who enjoys a fair game more than winning?
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy playing on the smae team as other EE guys, but if EE members were to team up against others it would be a slaughter.
If I can help it I will try to keep said noob out of harm's way while he gets familiar with the mod and the interface.
Surely I can't be the only one in spring who enjoys a fair game more than winning?
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Lolsquad_Steven
- Posts: 488
- Joined: 27 Jun 2006, 17:55
+1Lolsquad_Steven wrote:One time i saved this kids life, he was caught in a rift at a beach during some camp.
What Relevence does that have to the ranking system
I reckon do it like the normal classic system (Win points for winning) but you can lose any it will just list the number of defeats
and you can set it to a ranked game or just a freindly normalSo, has anyone made any advances?
Perhaps betalord or any other client coder should take point if they are willing to integrate any systems? This would likeli end in the need for a database, for example mySQL.
Even if the coders should keep beeing quiet, who would appreciate or support (or whatelse positive) a reasonable scoring system, based on something existing or brand new invented???
(reasonable: with adequate time and effort bringing more comparability to spring, without discriminating or giving unwanted benifits to individual players.)
Perhaps betalord or any other client coder should take point if they are willing to integrate any systems? This would likeli end in the need for a database, for example mySQL.
Even if the coders should keep beeing quiet, who would appreciate or support (or whatelse positive) a reasonable scoring system, based on something existing or brand new invented???
(reasonable: with adequate time and effort bringing more comparability to spring, without discriminating or giving unwanted benifits to individual players.)
AFLobby and me lacks the necessary support and userbase atm.
UnityLobby and hollowsoul seem to be waiting for betalord.
Betalord will do it when he does it and nobody else can do anything about that.
You will get this eventually but at the moment you're relying solely on 3 people who are already busy with other things, and you cant expect us to deliver in the short term without any help.
You have several options:
A: Sit back and do nothing and wait for us to eventually get there
possible ETA: 4/5 months - 2 years
B: Build a multiple mod ladder and provide us with backends to put and pull stats from
possible ETA: time it takes you to setup the ladder + 2 or 3 days/weeks
C: Help speed up Unity lobby and AFLobby development
possible ETA: The more people, the faster it happens, and the better it is in the longrun.
Remember:
I and hollowsoul have lobby infrastructure and other things to finish without implementing a ranking system.
Betalord has exams too, and I'm going to have exams soon too as I've winding down and focusing more on coursework lately.
UnityLobby and hollowsoul seem to be waiting for betalord.
Betalord will do it when he does it and nobody else can do anything about that.
You will get this eventually but at the moment you're relying solely on 3 people who are already busy with other things, and you cant expect us to deliver in the short term without any help.
You have several options:
A: Sit back and do nothing and wait for us to eventually get there
possible ETA: 4/5 months - 2 years
B: Build a multiple mod ladder and provide us with backends to put and pull stats from
possible ETA: time it takes you to setup the ladder + 2 or 3 days/weeks
C: Help speed up Unity lobby and AFLobby development
possible ETA: The more people, the faster it happens, and the better it is in the longrun.
Remember:
I and hollowsoul have lobby infrastructure and other things to finish without implementing a ranking system.
Betalord has exams too, and I'm going to have exams soon too as I've winding down and focusing more on coursework lately.
this wasnt any request or something at all, it was a question, if such a system is wanted at all.
Second, i wanted to know from the people what kind of system they wish.
The thing was: if any coder had the time to do it, what do you want?
This thread is all about people who waffle about pros and cons of w/l-ratio based systems against whatever system, without getting anywhere.
And before you can code anything you need to create a plan and thats what i wanted to initiate.
Second, i wanted to know from the people what kind of system they wish.
The thing was: if any coder had the time to do it, what do you want?
This thread is all about people who waffle about pros and cons of w/l-ratio based systems against whatever system, without getting anywhere.
And before you can code anything you need to create a plan and thats what i wanted to initiate.
Nobody here speaks of anything but what they want in a finished implementation, the sort that you get running then spend months refining and perfecting.
Nobody discusses implementation, or initial prototyping etc, they act as if V1 of this thing will do everything they ask of it.
Eitherway, the people in these threads are not the people who should be discussing things like implementation with. These people have no idea what goes into actually implementing it, they dont know what sort of things are needed and they dont have any experience or knowledge of the lobby system and other designs past the top layer of User Interface that we use from day to day.
In the end the systems design and methodology is dictated by the people implementing it not the end users discussing it, and the end users wont get any hefty lobbying power untill the refinement stage unless they actually do something, and untill then they'll speak about what they want and they'll never come to a consensus, and they'll talk in end result terms. But most importantly, they'll never really do anything useful.
Instead you should be talking to people like me, hollowsoul, betalord, licho, rayden, iamacup, michilus, etc, people who have implemented lobby programs and the surrounding infrastructure of our existing lobby, people who you'll be working with if you ever want your dream to get off the ground without implementing a new lobby system from scratch.
To start off you'll want a basic ranking system, something simple to lay the foundations that can then be built upon, if not to act as a test system.
Nobody discusses implementation, or initial prototyping etc, they act as if V1 of this thing will do everything they ask of it.
Eitherway, the people in these threads are not the people who should be discussing things like implementation with. These people have no idea what goes into actually implementing it, they dont know what sort of things are needed and they dont have any experience or knowledge of the lobby system and other designs past the top layer of User Interface that we use from day to day.
In the end the systems design and methodology is dictated by the people implementing it not the end users discussing it, and the end users wont get any hefty lobbying power untill the refinement stage unless they actually do something, and untill then they'll speak about what they want and they'll never come to a consensus, and they'll talk in end result terms. But most importantly, they'll never really do anything useful.
Instead you should be talking to people like me, hollowsoul, betalord, licho, rayden, iamacup, michilus, etc, people who have implemented lobby programs and the surrounding infrastructure of our existing lobby, people who you'll be working with if you ever want your dream to get off the ground without implementing a new lobby system from scratch.
To start off you'll want a basic ranking system, something simple to lay the foundations that can then be built upon, if not to act as a test system.
ok, i understand your point.
I thought it might be possible to discuss the principle basement of the implementation here.
I know that no coder will let anybody obtrude him, what to or what not to do.
Just to make the coders, betalord or whoever, an offer so he has less work to do.
If he accepts it is a totally different question...
I just cannot imagine, that the limitation are so strong that a noncoder is worthless.
But if its true
And btw, i would willingly contribute but i have no idea of java or c++.
(And no time to learn)
I thought it might be possible to discuss the principle basement of the implementation here.
I know that no coder will let anybody obtrude him, what to or what not to do.
Just to make the coders, betalord or whoever, an offer so he has less work to do.
If he accepts it is a totally different question...
I just cannot imagine, that the limitation are so strong that a noncoder is worthless.
But if its true
And btw, i would willingly contribute but i have no idea of java or c++.
(And no time to learn)
Rather you need to be able to communicate with the current lobby devs on the implementation.
Suffice to say if I recieved a ranking system itnegration patch for AFLobby, that patch would be torn out and re-implemented within 6 months, and that system could be victim to competition from a set of other ranking systems come 6 months time
Now is not the time.
Suffice to say if I recieved a ranking system itnegration patch for AFLobby, that patch would be torn out and re-implemented within 6 months, and that system could be victim to competition from a set of other ranking systems come 6 months time
Now is not the time.