Map on the Surface of a Black Hole possible ?

submarine · Post by **submarine** » 28 Mar 2007, 16:17

my 2 cents as a physics student:

we dont really know what happens inside a black hole. there is no way to prove a theory that explains what happens "beyond" the event horizon of a black hole. statements like "the time stands still" etc. are not necessarily true as they are derived from theories which are probably invalid under such extreme conditions.

iamacup · Post by **iamacup** » 28 Mar 2007, 16:22

(all of the above asumes we ignore all other time/gravity effects and that we are using simple time dilation)

also, we will imagine a photon clock on mars and earth instead to avoid confusion with work done.

not a mechanical clock.

[faggot]

cough.

manored · Post by **manored** » 28 Mar 2007, 18:38

If matter would not be compressed on blackholes due to the lack of time then there should be shinning blackholes somewhere since a blackhole eats a star then he finds one...

Just a tough of a noob on astrofisic tough.

Zpock · Post by **Zpock** » 28 Mar 2007, 19:25

I think the time standing still was for an object at the event horizon seen from an observer on the outside, so you would throw something down the black hole it would appear to get stuck there forever. But I don't know this for sure.

Felix the Cat · Post by **Felix the Cat** » 28 Mar 2007, 19:52

submarine wrote:my 2 cents as a physics student:

we dont really know what happens inside a black hole. there is no way to prove a theory that explains what happens "beyond" the event horizon of a black hole. statements like "the time stands still" etc. are not necessarily true as they are derived from theories which are probably invalid under such extreme conditions.

Scientific theories make the assumption of underlying order. This is called the Aneristic Fallacy.

The Principia Discordia tells the Parable of Ichabod (also known as Starbuck). I'll paraphrase it.

One day, long ago, a large stone was teetering on the edge of a cliff. It stood on the brink of falling for years, until finally a minor earthquake tipped it over. It fell to the ground below and shattered into many small rocks and pebbles.

Some time thereafter, Ichabod happened upon the site of the fall. He looked at the pebbles extensively. He examined small pebbles, he examined large pebbles, he examined everything in between.

As dusk was falling, Ichabod noticed something. Three large stones formed almost an equilateral triangle encompassing the area. Ichabod became excited and started to look for other patterns. Lo and behold, those four white stones over there almost form a square... and if you ignore that one white stone and instead use that other off-white one, it's almost exactly a square!

Ichabod took out his notebook and wrote down these things so he wouldn't forget them, and then went back to his village and excitedly described the wonders to them.

The next day, bright and early, everyone in the village walked down to the site. They spent all day looking through the pebbles and found all manner of wonders... triangles, squares, pentagons, octagons, circles, and even a line of six stones that point straight toward the North Star on the Ides of March.

"Truly this is a wonder you have found, Ichabod," said one of the village elders. "Some ancient race must have constructed this place as a temple or some holy site." The other elders rushed to agree.

For generations, the village held ceremonies and festivals commemorating the ancients, with the most holy one on the Ides of March. Unfortunately, one day the village was demolished in an earthquake.

The moral of the story is, you should not build your village in an earthquake zone.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 28 Mar 2007, 23:28

There is always an underlying assumption, for the sake of simplicity. The true test of intellect is setting aside one assumption after another, finding and defeating those behind, before, within and without. No rhyme, no reason. Only madness - which is only sanity.

Somewhat comforted to know I'm not the only one who knows about the Aneristic Fallacy. Of course, that is assuming a number of things.

kuqa · Post by **kuqa** » 29 Mar 2007, 07:24

My theory on black holes is that they are like planets; gatherings of mass. The mass in a black hole is so dense that the gravity field becomes so big that it sucks even the light in it. (fotons have a mass when they are moving, so gravity can affect them.)

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 29 Mar 2007, 07:25

That's the commenly accepted theory. Except black holes have no surface area. They're more like...points.

In space.

kuqa · Post by **kuqa** » 29 Mar 2007, 07:39

no, it seems as a point to us. Actually it is just an incredibly small "pile" of mass for such a big amount of it.

Imagine how a atom is built up, the volume% of mass in it is something like .0000001% even in the most heavy atoms. You know, the volume of the protons and neutrons compared to the whole volume the atom takes (the "space" inside the orbitting electrons)

So if we only took protons and neutrons they would have a denisity 1000000-9000000 times more then any of the basic elements found on earth (this is just to demonstrate the idea)

Even the best modern science really has no way of knowing if the laws of physics drastically change when you approach the speed of light, or if you are in an environment that has gravity so strong that it even pulls the light in to it...

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 29 Mar 2007, 07:40

No matter. I still don't think I'd make a good map for any RTS. Ever...

A REALLY good map would be an inside out sphere, like a Dyson's Sphere. So really long range artillery could fire up and through the middle of the sphere and drop on the other side.

Now how much fun would THAT be?

Ishach · Post by **Ishach** » 29 Mar 2007, 11:03

picassoCT rules

rattle · Post by **rattle** » 29 Mar 2007, 12:43

Speaking of time travel...
http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/936 ... veler.html

Peet · Post by **Peet** » 29 Mar 2007, 17:15

Zoombie wrote:No matter. I still don't think I'd make a good map for any RTS. Ever...

A REALLY good map would be an inside out sphere, like a Dyson's Sphere. So really long range artillery could fire up and through the middle of the sphere and drop on the other side.

Now how much fun would THAT be?

Heh...that'd be sheer win.

bwansy · Post by **bwansy** » 02 Apr 2007, 14:20

A whole bunch of Google-taught experts.

Deathblane · Post by **Deathblane** » 02 Apr 2007, 16:49

Consider, there are black holes so massive that you could cross the event horizon perfectly happily and continue travelling for while before the gravitational sheer mashes you.
The event horizon is simply the point of no return for light. The really crazy stuff happens at the very centre at the actual singularity.

another physics students 0.02p

Spring RTS Engine

Map on the Surface of a Black Hole possible ?