just played 3 1v1's of gundam.
(my first games beside the 3 ffa with smoth and someone else)
and while the graphics and effects are really nice, the game isnt really my cup of tea. (i learn new sayings every day)
i just produced blobs of random units and sent them to the enemy, trying to avoid defenses. I seperated the units in 2 groups: arti & "everything else."
"everything else" can be divided to "shots over hills" or "shots line of sight."
with this tactic i was quite sucessfull, won 2 games, the last one desynced after i had occupied 70% of the map.
also, why only 6 mex per player?
maybe buildings should chainexplode much more so big bases can be killed quickly and the frontiers shift quickly?
i can upload the replays later if you want.
i would also be interessted in some "pro-game"-demo that shows how its supposed to be play.
Gundam 1.1
Moderator: Moderators
... I do not recall giving you the current beta, who gave you it.
To answer your questions:
first MEX IS NOT the main resources.
If you enemy is not bombing the crap out of your base he is doing something wrong. Bases are constantly being reconstructed if you fighting correctly. I am not sure who you were playing and whether or not the person was experimenting. If you were fighting zeon then the player should be flogged because deep attack killing you base is what zeon does best.
Then again, the federation has some NICE OPTIONS as well. However, considering you were playing with the 6 mex limit in place I really must ask who gave you that version as I do not recall giving it to you. This is of THE MOST importance so a quick answer would be great.
Also, the indirect fire units are all very vulnerable to air which I am guessing your enemy did not use. Guntanks, etc all die badly at the hands of air units. Probably why an unorganized blob worked.
were you playing tiny comms? did the enemy not use his comm in self defense and when you say a blob you mean how many units? If someone has 20-50 level 1 units 1 gundam(rx78) can take all of that out.
I would be interested in the demos so I can see what happened, I;ll look into what did and did not happen.
however, if someone masses a horde, it is HARD to stop that. Outisde of bombing and heroes.
To answer your questions:
first MEX IS NOT the main resources.
Second Chain exploding buildings are ABSOLUTELY STUPID and will NEVER be in gundam.from the 1.1 release which noone reads wrote: Different thoughts on economy:
Building levelX unit requires levelX resource structure always felt hokey to me. Instead, I felt this would be a bit better. For war you need many things, raw material, refined parts and power for all your production. So I decided the metal extractors did not need to be the main point of focus. Instead I wanted the players to use the metal extractors as a beginning game boost. Now at the moment, I cannot execute the system as I want but I did the closest thing I could to it. What you as a player need to do is build the "machine shops" which are in essence metal makers. As a player your main economy concern is balancing the amount of power your base needs to produce materials(metal) and machines(units). So why is this not very easily spammable? In short form answer, all buildings in your base are destroyed with relative ease, some buildings being stronger then others.
So how do you win?
Answer, attack their troops and economy at the same time. You will need large fleets of bombers and other aircraft to drive in the enemy base and destroy their economy. This is the best way to crush another player. What is to keep me from just crushing them with tanks? In two words, the epic commander. It is powerful, resilient and above all else can rebuild a base in a short time. Without a commander the enemy player is dead in the water. So in short, take out that commander, get rid of the enemy resources and you will easily crush them. If only that was so easy.
If you enemy is not bombing the crap out of your base he is doing something wrong. Bases are constantly being reconstructed if you fighting correctly. I am not sure who you were playing and whether or not the person was experimenting. If you were fighting zeon then the player should be flogged because deep attack killing you base is what zeon does best.
Then again, the federation has some NICE OPTIONS as well. However, considering you were playing with the 6 mex limit in place I really must ask who gave you that version as I do not recall giving it to you. This is of THE MOST importance so a quick answer would be great.
Also, the indirect fire units are all very vulnerable to air which I am guessing your enemy did not use. Guntanks, etc all die badly at the hands of air units. Probably why an unorganized blob worked.
were you playing tiny comms? did the enemy not use his comm in self defense and when you say a blob you mean how many units? If someone has 20-50 level 1 units 1 gundam(rx78) can take all of that out.
I would be interested in the demos so I can see what happened, I;ll look into what did and did not happen.
however, if someone masses a horde, it is HARD to stop that. Outisde of bombing and heroes.
Gundam's econ is about farming, chain explosions would allow one stray bomber to kill your whole econ and set you back basically to tech 1. Remember that the AA in Gundam isn't as powerful as in AA, a decent number of bombers WILL break through and lay waste to some buildings.knorke wrote:maybe buildings should chainexplode much more so big bases can be killed quickly and the frontiers shift quickly?
ok after a nice tutorial by smoth I see that a game between two good players would be interessting if you know how to use the advanced gundams.
but my tankspam still worked ;)
so if you havent already, download the mod even if you do not know the anime. you can always think of the units as spacemarines or something.
but my tankspam still worked ;)
so if you havent already, download the mod even if you do not know the anime. you can always think of the units as spacemarines or something.
Hm, it'd be cool if aqua GMs (is that the name of the feddie amphib?) had slightly more range so they are better at hitting comms. I played a game on 1.1 where I regularly assaulted with aqua GMs and even when I put 20 of them below the com only 2-3 could shoot, if even that (depending on how the com flew it was completely out of range at times). Unless of course you don't want aqua GMs to be capable of hitting the com.
BTW, since ACGuys are supposedly useful out of water as well I was wondering if the same goes for the aqua GM or if that's really just a walking pile of crap that's cheap to spam but of no combat value?
BTW, since ACGuys are supposedly useful out of water as well I was wondering if the same goes for the aqua GM or if that's really just a walking pile of crap that's cheap to spam but of no combat value?
The aqua GM cannot attack the commander for a few reasons.
First I did not want the federation to have a unit that was too good at everything. The aquaGM does a good job of getting through to enemy lines and tearing up a base(at least using water). However, it is not intended for direct ms combat or combat versus the battle ships. However, unlike the acguy it can attack underwater as well.
It was a decision I made early on that the Acguy would requite zgok guards or it would be defenseless underwater. However, the aquagm is cheap, able to defend it's self but like most federation mechs it fits in a strict driven and crush design. Although, as I said, I did not want to create an an all terrain attack unit that was awesome at everything.
however, if you feel the being able to attack a commander would add to the role, I can consider it. It just wasn't what I intended to use it for.
as a note, the powered GM can do a number on a comm though. I have killed comms in less then 5 seconds before with them. However, they are not good at assault. The two units make a nice 1-2 haymaker combo. Then again, if someone has goufs and paralizes them or defends the water then you are going to have a hard time. either way, it is a solution that can work.
Thanks for looking at it, I am interested in your response. Most people neglect the unit but it really can do a number on a base.
First I did not want the federation to have a unit that was too good at everything. The aquaGM does a good job of getting through to enemy lines and tearing up a base(at least using water). However, it is not intended for direct ms combat or combat versus the battle ships. However, unlike the acguy it can attack underwater as well.
It was a decision I made early on that the Acguy would requite zgok guards or it would be defenseless underwater. However, the aquagm is cheap, able to defend it's self but like most federation mechs it fits in a strict driven and crush design. Although, as I said, I did not want to create an an all terrain attack unit that was awesome at everything.
however, if you feel the being able to attack a commander would add to the role, I can consider it. It just wasn't what I intended to use it for.
as a note, the powered GM can do a number on a comm though. I have killed comms in less then 5 seconds before with them. However, they are not good at assault. The two units make a nice 1-2 haymaker combo. Then again, if someone has goufs and paralizes them or defends the water then you are going to have a hard time. either way, it is a solution that can work.
Thanks for looking at it, I am interested in your response. Most people neglect the unit but it really can do a number on a base.
Ah, so that's intentional. I figured it was just a side effect from giving it a pretty short range to make it fight worse. I think my AGM swarms lasted longer than other mechs when under the com, though I did attack with planes at the same time so those might've drawn the fire away. The AGM can't stand up to any enemy in combat so I think it'd be fair to let it hit the com. It'll probably not rape the com either way since its gun doesn't do much damage and by the time these could damage a com enough reinforcements should have arrived complete with his Justice Rocket Backpack Rocket Rocket!.
Interesting that PGMs deal with commanders. I thought they were meant mostly for catching Zeon's fast mechs or running around defenses and attacking the base. Though I guess the com is part of the base for that matter (making me wonder if the Kämpfer can shotgun a com...).
Isn't gouf vs. PGM = dead gouf? PGMs should be fast enough that even with the whole turning around they'd still be able to wreck the gouf.
Interesting that PGMs deal with commanders. I thought they were meant mostly for catching Zeon's fast mechs or running around defenses and attacking the base. Though I guess the com is part of the base for that matter (making me wonder if the Kämpfer can shotgun a com...).
Isn't gouf vs. PGM = dead gouf? PGMs should be fast enough that even with the whole turning around they'd still be able to wreck the gouf.
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1v0ry_k1ng
- Posts: 4656
- Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 10:24
Not to throw the discussion off too much, I disagree with this as an absolute statementSecond Chain exploding buildings are ABSOLUTELY STUPID...
While it may not make sense in the easy base destruction world of Gundam play, chain reaction resource buildings create an interesting mechanic - the player can cluster them all together and sit in a tight little base without expansion, but risk getting their economy and base blown to kingdom come fairly easily...OR they can spread out and be 'safer' from bombing or artillery, but be forced to defend more of the map. The choice between space or safety.
I like it because it adds a bit of thought to the usual 'build 200 windgens' style of resource acquisition.
If you understand what I was saying why argue the point? This isn't X sci-fi world. I do not have a nuclear reactor(or do I, ha ha ha @ gundam fluff) in the machinist. That is the main area of attack as far as resources, if someone blows up a machineshop or transformer it just kersplodes and crumbles. I know this from having seen them and having worked in a few machine shops in my time.. anyway, unless it is refueling depot or some sort of nuclear reactor most of the stuff in gundam is pretty blowup safe. There for it would be stupid.
I also am not amused at wind farms in other mods chaining.. they are wind farms... they would fall over and that is it. Solar plants.. yep same thing. Only geos, and nuclear stuff would blow big enough to destroy whole nearby buildings. That is because of pressure. Hell arguably there are many other things but my point is just this. the problem in TA:S mods is that the mods are very porcy it does a lot to counter the buildings being behind the superduper defenses. Not really a good idea in my opinion.
Why don't we just get weapons that are more effective at damaging buildings then they are units? Also why are certain unit not more effective anti-unti then they are anti-building? That is where I think chain exploding is asinine. It exists to counter a hole left in unit function. I am not fond of those sort of design decisions. I do not want to see a series of buildings explode down the block because they are setting each other off. It strikes me as less realistic then "building destroyer unit."
Before anyone asks, yes, I have been tooling around with the idea of some units doing more to units then buildings and vice versa, I just have not decided on which units it should apply to.
As far as kampfer vs com, his shotty does low damage to the com, as it is heavily armored. Both commanders have their own damage class because they are huge armored ships. Somethings are more effective then others. The gouf has a lot of hp. I wouldn't underestimate it, and how many units can a disabled pgm kill :)?
I also am not amused at wind farms in other mods chaining.. they are wind farms... they would fall over and that is it. Solar plants.. yep same thing. Only geos, and nuclear stuff would blow big enough to destroy whole nearby buildings. That is because of pressure. Hell arguably there are many other things but my point is just this. the problem in TA:S mods is that the mods are very porcy it does a lot to counter the buildings being behind the superduper defenses. Not really a good idea in my opinion.
Why don't we just get weapons that are more effective at damaging buildings then they are units? Also why are certain unit not more effective anti-unti then they are anti-building? That is where I think chain exploding is asinine. It exists to counter a hole left in unit function. I am not fond of those sort of design decisions. I do not want to see a series of buildings explode down the block because they are setting each other off. It strikes me as less realistic then "building destroyer unit."
Before anyone asks, yes, I have been tooling around with the idea of some units doing more to units then buildings and vice versa, I just have not decided on which units it should apply to
.they can do a number pursuing the faster zeon MS but things like the doms can shoot behind themselves so they are often times a bad target to chase.kdr_11k wrote: Interesting that PGMs deal with commanders. I thought they were meant mostly for catching Zeon's fast mechs or running around defenses and attacking the base. Though I guess the com is part of the base for that matter (making me wonder if the Kämpfer can shotgun a com...).
Isn't gouf vs. PGM = dead gouf? PGMs should be fast enough that even with the whole turning around they'd still be able to wreck the gouf.
As far as kampfer vs com, his shotty does low damage to the com, as it is heavily armored. Both commanders have their own damage class because they are huge armored ships. Somethings are more effective then others. The gouf has a lot of hp. I wouldn't underestimate it, and how many units can a disabled pgm kill :)?
Nemo ur quote cuts off the last part of the sentence which is "and will NEVER be in Gundam" showing that Smoth isn't using it in gundam but you peeps are free to use it as u will. really the whole "validity of chaining" discussion is pointless here as its a design decision regarding smoth's mod not smoth going, "OMG CHAIN-SPLODE SUXXORS NONE OF YOU MAY USE IT!!!!11!!1!" and him haxxing the spring code to remove it.
Arguing about it is a waste of time, instead lets talk more about gundam... strats.
also we need more com share matches of gundam... i can't make an econ worth shit (and control my forces) but if u have me only micro an EZ8 ill be a pain in the ass for a long while..
so in Short:
- chaining is relative to the mod and its validity overall is based on opinion
- need more com sharing matches
Arguing about it is a waste of time, instead lets talk more about gundam... strats.
also we need more com share matches of gundam... i can't make an econ worth shit (and control my forces) but if u have me only micro an EZ8 ill be a pain in the ass for a long while..
so in Short:
- chaining is relative to the mod and its validity overall is based on opinion
- need more com sharing matches