Community opinion Poll

zwzsg · Post by **zwzsg** » 18 Mar 2007, 15:11

I want awesome terrain while making filesize go way down, duh!

And yes it's possible. Use the tiles! It is unacceptable that, with all your experience as most prolific map maker, you keep releasing maps in the 70MB range, when I can make gorgeous map in 0.5MB.

tombom · Post by **tombom** » 18 Mar 2007, 16:00

Getting people to download any map bigger than about 10mb is absolute hell. I, personally, don't download any map bigger than around 25mb unless the game has been organised beforehand, just because having to spend 5-20 minutes downloading a map sucks and I know for sure nobody else will download it and you'll never get a game going. I always play in F4 mode pretty much as well so I never see the texture.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 18 Mar 2007, 19:04

jcnossen wrote:
Unfamiliarity... not really. It does currently run like an old man riding a unicycle whilst getting punched in the face.
But.. disabling the bumpmaps, does it run well enough then?

Yes. Damnit I meant to make a note of that in my last post. Sorry about that. Yes without the shaders it runs like a dream.

zwzsg wrote:...when I can make gorgeous map in 0.5MB.

@zwzsg
Look man I have nothing against you and for that matter I like you, but you're on shaky ground here. I wait eagerly for your contribution.

BTW, they are called seamless textures. Dunno why you insist on calling them tiles. And yes, I do use them. I also use a renderer, so that my terrain looks lifelike. You may be able to produce something relatively pretty without a renderer, but I produce something that looks real.

PicassoCT · Post by **PicassoCT** » 18 Mar 2007, 19:26

Me agrees with Forboding - Tiles suck - in the End there is always a Moire Effect and in heavy Microstress you find yourself on tiled Planes who look al the Same.. so you alway have to keep a Eye on the Mini...

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 18 Mar 2007, 20:04

Um, I get 70+ FPS with normalmaps on with SM3. I do not have an uber rig, either. I dunno where y'all are having problems, but it's not hardware.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 18 Mar 2007, 20:06

load up whakamatunga riri with those settings.

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 18 Mar 2007, 20:14

Angled shot, with units.

Keep in mind, this is with the latest builds of Spring. I am paying attention to the future, not the past- like you mappers should be, considering how long it takes you to get a really quality map done.

superppl · Post by **superppl** » 18 Mar 2007, 20:26

This all of a sudden hit me, and I don't know why now. SM3 is a directx technology right? Meaning that a map made with it won't work in linux right?

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 18 Mar 2007, 20:29

NO! SM3 is just a file format.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 18 Mar 2007, 20:30

Arugh, load up the sm3 version of whakamatunga riri with 20 texture layers and all shaders.

That is the sm2 version.

SM3 version looks like this:

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 18 Mar 2007, 20:32

Unfortunately it also runs like crap.

Looking into the future? It doesn't even work yet with tasclient.

Riverglade took me all of about 5 hours to make. Dustbowl took me close to 3.

Sm3 mapping takes quite a long time to make it look good, because the style is completely different.

Stop trying to start arguments on things you know very little about. It's frustrating.

Zpock · Post by **Zpock** » 18 Mar 2007, 20:34

OMG

*runs off to steal some octa-core + 9800GTX prototypes*

Snipawolf · Post by **Snipawolf** » 18 Mar 2007, 20:36

Hawt. Sex.

I swear, when we get those thing optimized, Spring is gunna have the best maps in all of the world, and for the next 10 years....

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 18 Mar 2007, 20:37

Zpock wrote: OMG

*runs off to steal some octa-core + 9800GTX prototypes*

To play a game on that map you're gonna need it.
I have a very nice rig now and it still only gets at max 20 fps with the shaders on.
Turn the shaders off and it's a completely different story, but, then it looks like crap because of tilesize settings in the sm3.

BTW I forgot to mention the most annoying thing about sm3. I have never been able to get any other sizes besides 16x16 and 32x32 to work. That, is annoying.

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 18 Mar 2007, 20:42

Show me a link, and I will look at your map. Unknown-Files link goes to version 5, and it's not SM3.

20 layers? Bet I find that you're using huge texture tiles, too. Don't tell ME I don't know a lot about optimization, bucko. That's really condescending coming from the guy who causes the most complaints about "it's pretty, but"... when he releases maps. There are plenty of ways to cut down to low numbers of tiles and still make things look really good, you're just not used to them.

superppl · Post by **superppl** » 18 Mar 2007, 20:57

Argh wrote:NO! SM3 is just a file format.

Ok, I can breath again.

The maps look great, now we should worry about how our units look. It's kinda funny to see next-next-gen maps next to prehistoric graphics looking units.
Things always perform like crap in the beginning. Maybe theres some optimizations you guys don't know about yet or something is going to be done with sm3 to make it perform better.
In terms of hardware, directx 10 cards are supposed to come out within a couple months, google search 8600 ultra or look here http://www.guru3d.com/newsitem.php?id=4834, and it's going to drive the price of current gpu's down. I think soon is a great time to upgrade and people will get stronger pcs. Not necessarily new, but a 7900gs won't cost as much as it used to.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 18 Mar 2007, 20:58

Argh wrote:Show me a link, and I will look at your map. Unknown-Files link goes to version 5, and it's not SM3.

20 layers? Bet I find that you're using huge texture tiles, too. Don't tell ME I don't know a lot about optimization, bucko. That's really condescending coming from the guy who causes the most complaints about "it's pretty, but"... when he releases maps. There are plenty of ways to cut down to low numbers of tiles and still make things look really good, you're just not used to them.

If you were as smart as you think you are you would have already found the link yourself. As you aren't let me straighten you out.

SM3 of Riri uses 6 texture layers. They are look 256x256 textures with normal maps the same size.

You are such an uninformed tard sometimes. Don't try to act like you know more about mapping than I do, you'll hurt yourself.

And stop flamebaiting me, it's against the rules and it's pissing me off. You barge in here all high and mighty spouting off about sm3 blah blah blah.

Jesus...

[MAP]
{
Description=Made by Forboding Angel
TidalStrength=0;
Gravity=130; //in units/sec^2
AutoShowMetal=1; // 0 no show 1 show
MaxMetal=1; //how much metal a map square with the maximum metal value gives
ExtractorRadius=150; //radius that a single extractor(mine) extracts from
MapHardness=300;

GameAreaW=1024;
GameAreaH=1024;

[INFOMAPS]
{
metal=Maps/whakamatungariri/metalmap.png;
type=Maps/whakamatungariri/typemap.png;
}

[ATMOSPHERE]
{
FogColor=1 0.90 0.68;
FogStart=0.7;

CloudColor=1 1 1;
SkyColor=0.30 0.40 2.00;

SunColor=1.20 1.00 1.00;
CloudDensity=0.2;

MinWind=1;
MaxWind=30;
}
[WATER]
{
WaterDamage=0; //Amount of damage water does
WaterBaseColor=0.4 0.5 0.8; //color at water surface
WaterAbsorb=0.004 0.004 0.002; //how fast different colors are absorbed by the water
WaterMinColor=0.1 0.1 0.3; //the min value the water colors will go down to
}
[LIGHT]
{
SunDir=2 1 0; //direction of sun (spring will normalize it later)(y component is upward)

GroundAmbientColor=0.5 0.5 0.5; //ambient (non sun lit) color of ground (and grass etc)
GroundSunColor=0.8 0.8 0.8; //color of ground where fully sun lit (added to ambient)
GroundShadowDensity=0.8; //how far from the non shadowed to the ambient color stuff in shadow will go

GroundSpecularColor=0.2 0.2 0.2;

UnitAmbientColor=0.6 0.6 0.6; //ambient (non sun lit) color of units (and wreckage etc)
UnitSunColor=0.5 0.5 0.5; //color of units where fully sun lit (added to ambient)
UnitShadowDensity=0.8; //how far from the non shadowed to the ambient color stuff in shadow will go.0;
}
[TEAM0]
{
StartPosX=1806;
StartPosZ=1481;
}
[TEAM1]
{
StartPosX=7656;
StartPosZ=7481;
}
[TEAM2]
{
StartPosX=7793;
StartPosZ=556;
}
[TEAM3]
{
StartPosX=2268;
StartPosZ=8468;
}
[TEAM4]
{
StartPosX=8656;
StartPosZ=4581;
}

[TERRAIN]
{
HeightScale=600.0;
HeightOffset=10.0;
Heightmap=Maps/whakamatungariri/whakamatungariri.png;

SpecularExponent=8;

NumTextureStages=6;
AutoBumpmapStages=1;

[texstage0]
{
// the first texture stage operation is ignored
source=catchsand;
}

[texstage1]
{
operation=blend; // use the incoming alpha to blend between 2 textures
source=crackeddirt;
blender=crackeddirtblend;
}
[texstage2]
{
operation=blend; // use the incoming alpha to blend between 2 textures
source=sandycracked;
blender=sandycrackedblend;
}
[texstage3]
{
operation=blend; // use the incoming alpha to blend between 2 textures
source=rock;
blender=rockblend;
}
[texstage4]
{
operation=blend; // use the incoming alpha to blend between 2 textures
source=drydirt;
blender=drydirtblend;
}
[texstage5]
{
operation=blend; // use the incoming alpha to blend between 2 textures
source=sand;
blender=sandblend;
}

/* TEXTURES */
[rock]
{
File=Maps/whakamatungariri/rock3.jpg;
Bumpmap=Maps/whakamatungariri/rock3_bump.jpg;
TileSize=20;
}
[crackeddirt]
{
File=Maps/whakamatungariri/desert1.jpg;
Bumpmap=Maps/whakamatungariri/desert1_bump.jpg;
TileSize=50;
}
[sandycracked]
{
File=Maps/whakamatungariri/lightdesertcracked.jpg;
Bumpmap=Maps/whakamatungariri/lightdesertcracked_bump.jpg;
TileSize=50;
}
[drydirt]
{
File=Maps/whakamatungariri/drysmallcracked.jpg;
Bumpmap=Maps/whakamatungariri/drysmallcracked_bump.jpg;
TileSize=50;
}
[sand]
{
File=Maps/whakamatungariri/drysmallcracked.jpg;
Bumpmap=Maps/whakamatungariri/drysmallcracked_bump.jpg;
TileSize=50;
}
[catchsand]
{
File=Maps/whakamatungariri/desertsand.jpg;
Bumpmap=Maps/whakamatungariri/desertsand_bump.jpg;
TileSize=50;
}

/* BLENDERS */
[rockblend] // a rock blender loaded from file for a specific map
{
Blendmap=1;
File=Maps/whakamatungariri/rockblend.jpg;
}
[sandycrackedblend] // a rock blender loaded from file for a specific map
{
Blendmap=1;
File=Maps/whakamatungariri/sandycrackedblend.jpg;
}
[drydirtblend] // a rock blender loaded from file for a specific map
{
Blendmap=1;
File=Maps/whakamatungariri/drydirtblend.jpg;
}
[sandblend] // a rock blender loaded from file for a specific map
{
Blendmap=1;
File=Maps/whakamatungariri/sandblend.jpg;
}
[crackeddirtblend] // a rock blender loaded from file for a specific map
{
Blendmap=1;
File=Maps/whakamatungariri/crackeddirtblend.jpg;
}

}
}

I am tired of your condecending bullshit attitude. Get the hell out of my thread.

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 18 Mar 2007, 21:02

I'm not flamebaiting you. I'm saying you're wrong, and as you want me to do a proof, I expect to see a complete file, not have to rebuild your map properly just to make a point. Get over it.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 18 Mar 2007, 21:41

Argh, you are such an idiot. You are acting as though I am hiding something from you when the link has been publicly up for download since august 16th 2006
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?a ... 0038635e31

AND BTW YES YOU ARE, AND HAVE BEEN FLAMEBAITING ME SINCE YOUR FIRST POST IN THIS THREAD! GO AWAY!
http://spring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewtop ... &start=180

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 18 Mar 2007, 22:09

It's not flamebaiting when I'm telling you that you are factually incorrect, Forb. We're arguing about facts, not aesthetics. Either you know what you're talking about, and everybody should listen to you when you keep not-subtly telling mappers not bother learning about the file format, or you're full of crap and we should all forge ahead here.

Your example map doesn't work out of the box, btw, and it's full of junk files. Show me a version that works and I will happily test it, but for now I'll stick with another example, and I'll post a working version here in a few, to demonstrate a few things.

Spring RTS Engine

Community opinion Poll

Would you rather have awesome looking terrain sacraficing filesize, or crappy looking terrain while making filesize go way down?