EE version 0.173 Final (no more stuffs)

TradeMark · Post by **TradeMark** » 16 Feb 2007, 14:52

Uh, every time i say something bad about this mod, i get the feeling that it is not allowed to talk about anything wrong in the mod.

Feels like Fang doesnt even bother to consider most of the suggestions.

Thats not good... listen the players, you probably dont make this mod just for yourself... right?

But anyways, im gonna start making my own mutator soon. And then lets see which one people likes more... ^^

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 16 Feb 2007, 14:58

Trademark, I am going to tell you nicely because fang will be pissed when he reads this sentiment of yours. Fangs mod is his. EE belongs to fang. He has asked nicely that people do not modify it. Please do not cross that line.

Furthermore, you fail to acknowledge that fang will listen. As I have said, this is the 3rd time the build pics have been redone. It took a lot of work to redo them the last 2 times and you could have said something already but you wait until now. Fang is happy with the buildpics. This IS his mod, in the end he controls all creative decisions in it. He is the final say about EE.

He will listen to people but you have to give him a good reason. As saktoth said, there has not been a good reason yet.

If you modify fangs mod AGAINST his permission you will infuriate him. It would be highly disrespectful.

I am sure he would not mind a bp mock-up but to make a mutator you modify E&E which has been expressly forbidden.

chlue · Post by **chlue** » 16 Feb 2007, 15:05

I aranged myself with the unit buildpics, but what gives me constant trouble are factories and hubs.

Locking at them side by side, they indeed look quite different, but i still have problems

So the question is, would it hurt the design, if there would be a light number as a watermark, or a conforming number of stars in a corner, that represent the techlvl of the building? The overall design of them looks very nice and professional, i only ask for a small extension.

------

I got two gameplay problems, too.
1. What is the desired way to clear a minefield? Till now i found nothing that can detect them. In my opinion mines should stop an emeny from rushing trough an area and protect defence buildings from flamers, but if I know there is a minefield in the area and the emeny isn't there to harass me, there should be an solution to defuse it.

2. How does the balance of antiair-planes work?
Taken the URC values from http://modinfo.unknown-files.net/modit/ ... te_v_0.173
If i compare there dps: 180 : 410 : > 1100 Ok so T3 is really superior. But if I look at the hitpoints: 500 : 1200 : 1300
My problem is, The T3 Air Superiority VTOL is realy superior, if it strikes first, but they often make an unfortunate approach to the emeny, so there planes shot first and my expensive super vtol dont even mange to fire one shot before it is killed.
So I expect T3 is not meant to be used against fighers. It is only there to stop ground attack planes and I have to use L1 and L2 to fight against fighers?

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 16 Feb 2007, 15:06

that stars idea is neat I second that motion.

TradeMark · Post by **TradeMark** » 16 Feb 2007, 15:16

Or simplier: why not just make different tech levels with slightly different background color?

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 16 Feb 2007, 15:22

trademark, slightly different is hard to distinguish when they are not side by side.

TradeMark · Post by **TradeMark** » 16 Feb 2007, 15:28

Uhm, okay, then just different background color? (... in my language slightly different means a color which looks different, but still not a total different color

).

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 16 Feb 2007, 15:31

The colors are all picked for a specific reason.

Each faction has a color theme.

Past there there are colors used to designate specific things. However, it was discussed ad we realized that it would become too cluttered. Partly because players have to learn colors, combined with their natural fear of documentation meant that the color system had to be simplified.

I think stars are probably the best option. or something star like...

TradeMark · Post by **TradeMark** » 16 Feb 2007, 15:34

I dont much like those stars or etc, they just makes unitpics look uglier. Color or shape is best way to tell it fast.

There isnt that many techlevels that you would never learn the colors, just make it with 2 similar colors (ex. red and yellow), and then just change their lightness or something like that.

Or then something else, like the stripes in the background:
more stripes = higher tech level
Level1 would have zero stripes.

I think that would be best...

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 16 Feb 2007, 15:44

Stripes in the background sounds neat. Something like 2 filled collumns for level2 and 3 filled collumns for level3. That is a pretty nify idea.

sorta like bars on a bar graph.

like I said do some mock ups I am sure fang would look at it.

TradeMark · Post by **TradeMark** » 16 Feb 2007, 15:48

Here i made example:

And no, it dont need to be exactly as that, just EXAMPLE.

AF · Post by AF » 16 Feb 2007, 15:48

Actually I believestars or rank symbols or something to signify tech level would be an immense help to noobs as the noobs look and they dont know which is lvl 1 or 2 without reading the tooltip, which many of them never do.

One of the main questions I hear noobs say in their first game, is how do I go lvl 2?

I have 2 more suggestions:

A: The flamer bot has a flame graphic on its buildpic, I would like to see the other units firing their weapons in their buildpics, making it even quicker, as I only have to glance at the bright green plasma or the bright red orange, instead of identifying plasma turrets versus rocket pods.

B: This isnt to change the buildpics but rather to fiddle ctrlpanel.txt to make them larger! Nice big buildpics make for easier to see details! It makes shapes more identifiable.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 16 Feb 2007, 15:48

try instead filling in every other bar.. those lines can be easily missed when skimmed over.

AF · Post by AF » 16 Feb 2007, 15:51

oh and the stripes idea is bull as it requires you to tell the user what they mean for them to be usable, which means the user will not know because users never read manuals, it isnt intuitive, it doesnt conform to any conventions or cultural norms, no other gmes use it, and its bad HCI design!

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 16 Feb 2007, 15:52

I gotta run, I have an exam in 5 hours. good luck and keep looking into it. Talk to wasp and fang, I am sure something can be worked out.

TradeMark · Post by **TradeMark** » 16 Feb 2007, 16:11

AF wrote:oh and the stripes idea is bull as it requires you to tell the user what they mean for them to be usable, which means the user will not know because users never read manuals, it isnt intuitive, it doesnt conform to any conventions or cultural norms, no other gmes use it, and its bad HCI design!

! bad bad! of course because i said it.

IF you havent ever heard about stripes, then you are dumb, look at any movie where are soldiers, they have stripes in their jackets which tells how badass he is.

tombom · Post by **tombom** » 16 Feb 2007, 16:15

TradeMark wrote:
AF wrote:oh and the stripes idea is bull as it requires you to tell the user what they mean for them to be usable, which means the user will not know because users never read manuals, it isnt intuitive, it doesnt conform to any conventions or cultural norms, no other gmes use it, and its bad HCI design!
! bad bad! of course because i said it.

IF you havent ever heard about stripes, then you are dumb, look at any movie where are soldiers, they have stripes in their jackets which tells how badass he is.

Yes. He supports rank symbols which stripes on soldier's jackets are. Yours are rather confusing unless you know what they're for.

TradeMark · Post by **TradeMark** » 16 Feb 2007, 16:21

Yeah, it sucks, just add there texts "level 3" etc, then every retard understands. </sarcasm>

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 16 Feb 2007, 16:28

FYI, buildpics aren't gonna get redone. They have been redone about 4 times now.

Trademark, would it kill you to read the tooltip? It doesn't take a genius...

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 16 Feb 2007, 16:46

chlue wrote: 2. How does the balance of antiair-planes work?
Taken the URC values from http://modinfo.unknown-files.net/modit/ ... te_v_0.173
If i compare there dps: 180 : 410 : > 1100 Ok so T3 is really superior. But if I look at the hitpoints: 500 : 1200 : 1300
My problem is, The T3 Air Superiority VTOL is realy superior, if it strikes first, but they often make an unfortunate approach to the emeny, so there planes shot first and my expensive super vtol dont even mange to fire one shot before it is killed.
So I expect T3 is not meant to be used against fighers. It is only there to stop ground attack planes and I have to use L1 and L2 to fight against fighers?

it works the same as ground balance. one T3 tank will be easily defeated by 10 or so light tanks, which are cheaper. but one t3 tank with 10 light tanks, against 20 light tanks, the group with the t3 is superior.

the t3 interceptor has a massive attack but similar health, so place 1 or 2 inside a group of l1 interceptors. EE is all about grouping. higher teir units tend to have much more attack but not much more health. you should never be using t2 or t3 units alone, they should always be inside a swarm of l1.

Spring RTS Engine

EE version 0.173 Final (no more stuffs)