Bug found for balanced annihilation....Peewees dragons teeth

Synsless · Post by **Synsless** » 05 Feb 2007, 05:56

smoth wrote:YOU are tweaking STATS not working ON GAMEPLAY.

Dumbest sentence ever.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 05 Feb 2007, 06:10

Synsless wrote:
smoth wrote:YOU are tweaking STATS not working ON GAMEPLAY.
Dumbest sentence ever.

I don't believe you are in a position to judge. If you have nothing to contribute to this discussion, do not post.

I understand both sides of the issue here, having an intense interest in virtually all games on the Spring engine. I am working on effects for Balanced Annihilation as I can, however, my time is limited and my skills somewhat rusty. I contribute regularly to balance discussion for Balanced Annihilation, just as I do for Gundam and E&E. However, I accept that we will never achieve perfect balance - it is an ideal you strive to approximate. Total Annihilation has now been in the process of balancing, continually, for ten years. It seems only logical that you accept some margin of error and improve other aspects of the game until enough issues crop up for a coherent balance release.

Synsless · Post by **Synsless** » 05 Feb 2007, 06:45

I'm not trying to attack smoth or say his point was wrong (the point of his whole post). Of course it only makes sense to balance your time/resources to maximize playability/fun/etc, and that should include "pretties" and whatever else. Obviously, smoth knows much more about modding than I do, not arguing that either. Just saying it makes no sense to belittle "tweaking stats" as if it doesn't change gameplay.

To add more to the thread, everyone's idea of what maximizes playability/fun/etc is different and you can't make everyone happy. In the end what matters is the mod's goal and target audience. At the same time, like smoth said, if 10 minutes worth of effort is all it takes to drastically improve effects, even for a mod whose target audience doesn't care about effects it's probably time well spent if it brings more people who might care more about that in. Bottom line, if a mod isn't balancing all these things in a manner that suits the target audience, it will either eventually fall to the wayside to another mod, or someone will step up and do the work.

I suppose my wording was harsh, but I really do think that was a pretty ridiculous statement to make... Like I said, can't make everyone happy, that goes for posts as well.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 05 Feb 2007, 07:29

Synsless wrote:Dumbest sentence ever.

Lol, come in main some time.

Synslsess, I said I know gundam is imbalanced(as are all things) and I am glad to see you understand that I am just saying... the extra effort is the difference between an A and B student. As I told noize, in two weeks time if he still has no effects in BA I will put them in for him at his request.

LordMatt · Post by **LordMatt** » 05 Feb 2007, 07:30

It would be awesome if the "real" modders would go work on their mods and not waste theirs, or anyone else's, time criticizing the tweaking of BA.

I support Fox for helping develop BA as long as he listens to me when we disagree about something.

Fox has tonnes of time to work on the mod, but he just needs to be sure to listen to what the "pro" players have to say.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 05 Feb 2007, 07:59

I do, but at first I heard "bleh, gundam is ugly" or "gundam is TOO anime fer me." So I took the extra steps to make gundam more attractive AS I prettied up the thing. Now there is 1.1 a dolled up more balanced version of gundam. In heavy testing we have found a few exploitable units.. so I have done a lot of work to re balance them... we are on test version H now. Yet, after I prettied it up, spent months balancing it. I was then subject to "gundam is all looks" as a mentality, I still got the hate. Fine whatever..

So, now with gundam I am at the point where I need to finish off my balance tweaks(almost there) and then make a release for 1.11 and with that I will *gasp* release my 2.0 version of my effects package, which has even MORE effects for the general use of the community. Yet still people complain about the work involved for effects detracting from the precious time needed to balance. As though, somehow, the effects are detrimental to the mods.

These same looks are READILY available with minimum effort for other mods. It does not take a lot to implement them. At this point, I decided that come hell or high water, I am going to help either directly or indirectly get spring to look prettier! Let's face it glamorous shots sell spring and the game play will keep the players here. However, I as you have pointed out am working on MY mod and cannot stop working on my MOD. In the time I eat food or relax after a shower, I have time to post, not enough time to dig into my mod... but enough time to push and push and push some more until I see a prettier spring all around for EVERYONE.

See LordMatt, my ONE constant desire is to see ALL mods look great, not just gundam. I want everyone to benefit from my work because why should someone else have to bother if I have already done the work FOR them. I like the plethora of mods available here! They can then go back to finely tuning their mods without having to stop, you see this is MY way of cutting their enevitable workload down. Sure they can do it the hard way and they have to stop what they are doing to edit their effects OR they can just pick up the stuff I readily hand to them so they can save some damn time. Time they could spend on their mod.

Let's face it even though I am NOT an artist and I do not consider myself very good, there are many others who have never fooled with this stiff. They would have to recruit a second party to do the effects for them. I do not have the time to model for everyone as I am going to be uvmapping all of gundam, adding units and balancing as this year goes on.

See I am not thinking short term, I am thinking long term, like it or not they WILL have to upgrade those dated graphics and THEY WILL have to have more then the default effects that are hard coded in engine. People can, by all means waste time making their own effects. Effects will have to be addressed and I think it is now the time to address it. I am not saying they can't do it, some one out there may be better then I am but hey, at least I am offering the first parts of a large wardrobe!

Foxomaniac · Post by **Foxomaniac** » 05 Feb 2007, 12:13

LordMatt wrote:It would be awesome if the "real" modders would go work on their mods and not waste theirs, or anyone else's, time criticizing the tweaking of BA.

I support Fox for helping develop BA as long as he listens to me when we disagree about something. Fox has tonnes of time to work on the mod, but he just needs to be sure to listen to what the "pro" players have to say.

Why would I listen to LordPhail when LordPhail comes up with the usual "PLAY ME" or ad-hominem arguments?

.

Smoth,

All of those who claim that Gundam's gameplay sucks because you worked "too hard" on the graphical effects are merely people who play the mod in an incorrect way.

Since they don't have a true argument on Gundam, they'l simply resort to such things.

This is commonly observed in new mods, oh the many times I've played EE with completely new players who ahem... got their asses handed to them and went "OMFG THIS MOD SUCKS".

What I'm really saying here : Ignore this kind of people, if you love working and improving Gundam then by all means, continue!

Masse · Post by **Masse** » 05 Feb 2007, 12:37

Fanger wrote:WHAT the frack are you people still tweaking in BA, I mean seriously, you have had this stuff for a year or more what can you still need to tweak.

Let me put this way, When I started EE, AA had been around for about Half a year, it is now a YEAR LATER and you people are still balancing AA(BA) granted Caydr did dick up a whole bunch of stuff, but seriously WHAT ARE YOU PEOPLE BALANCING.. I really want to know..

Maybe you BA people should consider not making a release until you have actually ironed out all the bugs/balance..

I really dont understand, its not like you guys have added any serious new features to the game, like fuel, or some new sort of weapon setup, or have added a serious number of units..

IT seems to me that you guys think that your own little opinions have become how balance should be and are thusly balancing based on opinion.. YOU cannot ever achieve perfect gameplay someone will always disagree slightly with what youve set up..

Its time for you people to stop tweaking the balance and start doing something else with the mod, or stop modding it period. You need to reach a point that will be your weve balanced this as well as we can and them move on..

+1

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 05 Feb 2007, 16:29

MASSE! HOW ARE YOU!?!? where did you go?

Masse · Post by **Masse** » 05 Feb 2007, 22:58

ive been here always :) more lurking now and not so intrested in modding nor graphical design anymore

im using linux nowdays... no xp at all or any other microsoft software product

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 06 Feb 2007, 00:07

BA will be tweaked until the day it dies, the source material had been tweaked so much that any concept of statistical balancing long since died.[/quote]

zwzsg · Post by **zwzsg** » 06 Feb 2007, 00:10

All this feud about balance is extremely funny when put in perspective with the old TA online multiplayer elite opinion about OTA balance and rebalancing mods.

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 06 Feb 2007, 00:11

what was the old elite oppinion?

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 06 Feb 2007, 19:32

Nice work Argh!

Can someone with moddeling/skinning skills remake the Core DT's as well? and while you are busy the FORTwalls too?

Would help a lot.

FLOZi · Post by **FLOZi** » 06 Feb 2007, 20:14

Of course, DT's will now count towards unit count...

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 06 Feb 2007, 20:42

FLOZi wrote:Of course, DT's will now count towards unit count...

no? they can still turn into a feature straight away right?

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 06 Feb 2007, 21:05

There isn't any reason that I can think of that would suggest otherwise noize :)

FLOZi · Post by **FLOZi** » 06 Feb 2007, 22:05

If they do, you will lose the script-based rotation.

And presumably, the teamcolour.

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 06 Feb 2007, 22:06

FLOZi wrote:Of course, DT's will now count towards unit count...

good, that'll punish porcing.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 06 Feb 2007, 22:15

Yes, because only those who porc use DTs.

Spring RTS Engine

Bug found for balanced annihilation....Peewees dragons teeth