RAI v0.601

unpossible · Post by **unpossible** » 10 Jan 2007, 19:52

try it on a 1v1 game. RAI will win every time as KAI at the moment loses interest in expanding/scouting for new prey.(note that is does this by teching up so it takes a while!)

2V2s give it a continual set of targets which it can follow back to base...and then boom!

RAI is very well rounded though.

hint: for extra fun try pitting the two against one another and then turning on .nocost

jnnnnn · Post by **jnnnnn** » 11 Jan 2007, 03:26

This AI is awesome! Very entertaining to watch it battle itself, it uses all sorts of strategies. It's also a good way of learning how units can be used in mods, as it uses units effectively.

BDCoolio · Post by **BDCoolio** » 11 Jan 2007, 04:43

It's also the only AI that seems to work with most mods without any trouble - AAI's configs are always out of date and NTai... doesn't really come with any configs.

It even "works" with mods that aren't officially supported - it will put up a decent fight (for an AI) in Expand and Exterminate, even though it can't use hubs properly. (Although it does have an unnatural obsession with minigun turrets)

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 11 Jan 2007, 19:14

I did a 1v1 KAI, KAI won (XTA, green comet)

unpossible · Post by **unpossible** » 11 Jan 2007, 21:15

right you are. seems like KAI is less likely to cripple/overextend itself via XTa's any builder builds any factory thing.
Looks like RAI tricked itself wth those mobile fusions...they're not very useful in combat.
Perhaps both A's favoring vehicles over KBOTs in XTA has something to do with it too
Try it with BA and its a much different story..or it's KAI's tendency to build depthcharge launchers as base defenses

Peet · Post by **Peet** » 11 Jan 2007, 22:25

unpossible wrote:Looks like RAI tricked itself wth those mobile fusions...they're not very useful in combat.

They have enough health to drive into a base's defenses, or a squad of raiding units, and self destruct (nuke explosion) :D

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 12 Jan 2007, 11:26

yeah that needs toning down lol

elio · Post by **elio** » 12 Jan 2007, 11:51

has the source available? Would like to compile the dll as a dylib for mac use.

Peet · Post by **Peet** » 12 Jan 2007, 16:54

1v0ry_k1ng wrote:yeah that needs toning down lol

Will be.

unpossible · Post by **unpossible** » 12 Jan 2007, 17:31

P3374H wrote:
unpossible wrote:Looks like RAI tricked itself wth those mobile fusions...they're not very useful in combat.
They have enough health to drive into a base's defenses, or a squad of raiding units, and self destruct (nuke explosion) :D

i didn't realise that was what it was intending

Peet · Post by **Peet** » 12 Jan 2007, 17:36

It doesn't, unfortunately.

Works quite well for human vs human though.

But I'm lowering the selfd for mobile fusions, mini fusions, and geo's from nuclear missile to armmine5.

Crampman · Post by **Crampman** » 14 Jan 2007, 05:08

Very nice AI

It use everything: nukes, decoy commanders, crawling bombs, dgun.
Good job

Post by **Kloot** » 14 Jan 2007, 14:27

Strategia · Post by **Strategia** » 16 Jan 2007, 21:48

BDCoolio wrote:It even "works" with mods that aren't officially supported - it will put up a decent fight (for an AI) in Expand and Exterminate, even though it can't use hubs properly. (Although it does have an unnatural obsession with minigun turrets)

Are you kidding me? I was just completely raped by an RAI on Tropical. Even though it started on the south island, it had a naval presence (i.e. several shipyards!) to the north of my island pretty rapidly, was claiming metal spots with cloaked mexes and was taking out some of my own mexes with plasma units.

After my army of 25 assorted lvl1 GD units had trudged from this end of my island to the other about three times, it REALLY started getting underway. It was building forward bases on any accessible area, had a very substantial naval presence consisting of enough gunboats to wipe out most cruiser fleets, and had developed a penchant for bombarding my base with a mortar destroyer. And I don't know how you did it, but it always picked out units/buildings whose construction had just begun, making it impossible for me to build up properly.

Then it sent in a reasonably-sized group of aircraft, which I took our by building the highest-level AAA turret in the middle of my base. (My base was extremely small, I was used to this AI building only ships and no land units (gosh how wrong I was >_>) so I took my time building up, and had only one hub, factory and builder for each tech level. Little did I know that "comp stomp" meant something entirely different in this game.....) It was still pounding me pretty heavily with the mortar destroyer (though I had no idea what or where it was bombarding me from at the time) so I couldn't get any heavy artillery turrets of my own going.

By that time I felt that I was definitely going to lose the match, so I turned on .nocost and built just over a dozen lvl3 tanks. It responds by sending in a terrifically huge amount of aircraft

I managed to get another AAA turret in while the aircraft were pounding away at my tanks, but just after it was finished the builder went boom.

The attack did stop, though I don't know whether it was because of my AAA (even though the second turret was gone by the time it stopped) or because their fuel had run out. I knew that even with cheats, it was simply too well-entrenched to breach all in one go, and I had no time to slowly expand my base and build an army of about a hundred lvl3 tanks, even with .nocost on, so I quit. Even if I had managed to get those hundred tanks going, I still think that victory would have come gradually, with me driving the AI back inch by inch at the cost of dozens of tanks per inch. Though it would have been fun to play this WWI-style EE game, I didn't feel like it (and didn't have the time anyway). I may try it again, though, when I have the time.

I may have been utterly pwned, but it was definitely fun. Not just because of the carnage, but also not in the least because I was very much surprised by the resourcefulness of the AI.

BDCoolio · Post by **BDCoolio** » 17 Jan 2007, 02:42

Strategia wrote:
BDCoolio wrote:It even "works" with mods that aren't officially supported - it will put up a decent fight (for an AI) in Expand and Exterminate, even though it can't use hubs properly. (Although it does have an unnatural obsession with minigun turrets)
Are you kidding me? I was just completely raped by an RAI on Tropical.

lol

- Yeah, I forgot about RAI and large maps. It'll build bigass bases if it has the chance. (there doesn't appear to be a base size limitation like in AAI - is that right?) The trouble is building up enough of an economy to overcome its massive over-building of factories, hubs and lvl1 defense turrets.
But once it does, (and it has the chance on large maps as long as you don't rush it) you're in big trouble.
RAI also builds lots of roving cons so it'll suck up all the metal spots on the map if left unopposed.

The navy is another thing - RAI SHOULD pwn on water maps because there are no naval hubs and few types of floating turrets, so the AI doesn't get bogged down building a bunch of crap.

Playing EE on a normal sized 1v1 land map though, (16x16 at the largest) it takes about 4-5 RAI's to reliably overwhelm a human, assuming you're playing aggressively. (That's my experience anyway).

AF · Post by AF » 17 Jan 2007, 03:17

Base size is an irrelevant term, a good player sees the entire map as his base, and the process of winning is that of ridding yourself of an infestation.

KAI RAI and NTai have no concept of bases and as such can build gigantic bases. I dont know about RAI but KAI tends to keep small central bases, and early NTai builds where able to build maps that literally covered the entire map densely packed. OTai would try to build as large as it could but always reached an optimum base size after which its management routines couldnt handle the expansion and the size fell back.

I wonder, do you have any source releases for RAI?

BDCoolio · Post by **BDCoolio** » 17 Jan 2007, 03:42

AF wrote:Base size is an irrelevant term, a good player sees the entire map as his base, and the process of winning is that of ridding yourself of an infestation.

Alrighty then.

DJ · Post by DJ » 17 Jan 2007, 13:46

The base limitations on AAI do seem to be configurable, I built a rough config for BA 4.5 based on 1v0ry_k1ng's recommendations in the AAI forum.

It's on unknown files although i can't post the URL because i'm a new user. (called BA45.cfg)

Using that AAI expands quite aggresively and easily beat KAI and RAI on Altored_Divide when I matched them together.

RAI looks like it's going to be top banana though, the D-Gunning is awesome.

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 17 Jan 2007, 14:13

lets get this straight. AAI wasnt build to be a competetive AI.
submarine made a specification of what he wanted his AI to do, that is make a small defended base and send out attack waves and thats what it does. its not difficult to beat, but it learns, its good for practice, its interesting to watch, and it plays fairly.

KAI was a competetive AI, hence its vision hack, and was jolly good at it, and to my knowlege it still unbeaten by RAI, AAI, NTAI, mostly because KAI was made by three guys and has more code than most of spring put together.

RAI is awesome though, I can see it overtaking KAI in the near future.
the no1 issue is defence placement; atm its awful.

PicassoCT · Post by **PicassoCT** » 17 Jan 2007, 23:14

Had your AI playing on some Maps against itself... Result:
Random Map (Balanced Annihilation 4.5)
-> managed Pathfinding (which really impressed me)
Fought some really tough battles, but had Problems with factory Placing (set up of a VehFactory on a Hill)...

Hydraiel (this time with the Mod LL) the Coms didn`t realize there Movementlimits and tried to reach the Iland in the middle, till they were killed by ships.

SpeedBattleSpire (again with LastLegacy)
-> Two of the Ais showed the Optimistic Vehicle & Shipspam you could expect. But the other Team totaly messed up - leafing there starting position, running around on the Map like drun, placing mexes and solars spread out finally doing sea (i had to protect them by blocking the entrances of the other Team with Dragons (Cheats) -> They still got Defeated, with Air & Hovercrafts only. There was Metall & horrible much Builtspace available..

Trenches ->
Produced Vehicles and Bots - and builded Buildings in the only Way out for them (the Railways)
Fast loss of AttackInterest when Enemy Units dissappeared (a nearly undefended Base survived 15 Minutes in the Middle) and wrong choosen Unittypes (Vehicles only are usefull on that Map when the K-Bots have conquered the Trenches so you can fly them in.)

Otherwise great AI - wouldn`t have spend hours writing, with all those Games in Background...

Spring RTS Engine

RAI v0.601

AAI Base Limitations