Balanced Annihilation v4.7 !!

jackalope · Post by **jackalope** » 14 Jan 2007, 01:00

In the switch from AA to BA the krogoth got a boost of about double HP and a crushing weapon while the cost remained the same. I'm not against these boosts I do feel like arm gets the short shaft here.

Klopper · Post by **Klopper** » 14 Jan 2007, 10:24

Another issue which can be quite annoying: The dreaded flak-bug which occured for me yesterday on Small Supreme Battlefield (not Speedmetal where it seems to happen quite often), sometimes all stuff capable of anti-air will start to fire aimlessly straight into the air and won't stop, not even when enemy air is getting close. That effectively means your anti-air just got paralyzed and your territory is open for airraids if you don't have fighters.
I remember some guy mentioning this might be due only to level 2 fighters sometimes getting into the atmosphere because they have a variable called special flight dynamics on or so...

Saktoth · Post by **Saktoth** » 14 Jan 2007, 14:13

Its not any one tag, its a range of tags I mentioned this 12 pages ago. Its drag, maxaileron, maxbank, maxelevator, maxpitch, maxrudder, mygravity, wingangle and wingdrag. I dont know if its any one of these values, or just a bad combination of them.

I dont know why it hasnt been fixed already, updates on BA seem to have slowed down quite a lot. Guess the men in charge are busy ATM.

ginekolog · Post by **ginekolog** » 14 Jan 2007, 18:30

Saktoth wrote: I dont know why it hasnt been fixed already, updates on BA seem to have slowed down quite a lot. Guess the men in charge are busy ATM.

Once mod reaches good balance like BA did, there is no need to spam random updates.

About AK power: I tested some units against AK's, equal costs.

x ak vs 5 gator- aks win sligtly
x ak vs 3 core hllt - all aks dead
x ak vs 3 raider - ak wins, 20% aks left
x ak vs 5 leveler - ak's die horribly, 1 lever down

Conclude: AK's are good in small masses, but quite bad in big numbers and die to AOE and static def quite fast. BALANCED.

Machiosabre · Post by **Machiosabre** » 14 Jan 2007, 19:09

well the definition of unbalanced isn't unstoppable,
the problem with ak's is that since ba started it's changed in a couple of small ways like more range and slightly lower rof.
For some reason it also has 75 more hp, so whereas before it was mostly a waste of time to get a lot of aks and storm a line in aa, now they can take 1/3rd more of a beating so they often work just as well as attacking with thuds or storms.
but since you get 3 times more units if you use aks you get a nice swarm effect so its easier to kill coms and always get a couple of units through to the back.

since aks were in no way underpowered in aa I really see no reason not to get rid of the extra health, even if its not completely overpowered in the sense that it always works, just to stop the spamming tactics in encourages.

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 14 Jan 2007, 20:18

Keep in mind that in BA, AK's are slower then PW's

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 14 Jan 2007, 21:35

Saktoth wrote:Its not any one tag, its a range of tags I mentioned this 12 pages ago. Its drag, maxaileron, maxbank, maxelevator, maxpitch, maxrudder, mygravity, wingangle and wingdrag. I dont know if its any one of these values, or just a bad combination of them.

How can it be reproduced?

Machiosabre · Post by **Machiosabre** » 14 Jan 2007, 21:36

yeah that is a bit weird, but its because the peewee got faster, not the ak slower.
peewees don't really need that speed either tbh

,
but that's no measure for the ak.
I mean you couldn't make the goliath and the bulldog 3 times as good and then say the bulldog's balanced because the golly also got buffed

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 14 Jan 2007, 21:41

Machiosabre wrote:yeah that is a bit weird, but its because the peewee got faster, not the ak slower.
peewees don't really need that speed either tbh ,
but that's no measure for the ak.
I mean you couldn't make the goliath and the bulldog 3 times as good and then say the bulldog's balanced because the golly also got buffed

we reduced the AK speed... kept the PW speed....

i am just saying we didn't just do things, AK got more HP, but less speed.

Machiosabre · Post by **Machiosabre** » 14 Jan 2007, 21:54

but aren't the maxvelocity stats:

ak aa 2.47-> ba 2.5

peewee aa 2.0-> ba 2.8

or is that the wrong one?

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 14 Jan 2007, 21:58

Hmm it seems i was wrong

Yeh well... maybe the AK needs some nerf...

Lippy · Post by **Lippy** » 14 Jan 2007, 22:22

While you're already on the topic of AK-Pewee balance, could you also even out the hit spheres, because the Pewee's hit sphere is quite a bit larger? (Unless this was done on purpose for some reason?)

Saktoth · Post by **Saktoth** » 15 Jan 2007, 03:49

How can it be reproduced?

You've never seen this bug? It gets brought up a fair bit (Just because its so spectacular). It often happens in longer games with a lot of stealth fighters patrolling. Ive tried to reproduce it, with no success.

I have recordings of it happening, but they are very long. My recordings of it happening earlier in the game are broke due to spring updates. Anyone have a recording of a game (Say speedmetal) where it happens fairly early?

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 15 Jan 2007, 18:08

being able to reproduce it will make it easier to fix that bug...

About the collision sphere of AK/PW not sure how i can control the sphere of 3do units.... but i'll try to fix it then if its really off..

hunterw · Post by **hunterw** » 15 Jan 2007, 19:42

There is a variable that reduces ground units to a fraction of their normal speed when they are driving through shallow water.

I am here to campaign that this variable needs to be changed. Ground units are slowed down immensely in water; much more than in OTA. This destroys the balance of Ring Atoll type maps...land units are balanced to work well at their normal speed, and since they are at least 50% slower when trudging through shallow water, they become much less useful on this type of shallow water map.

NOiZE, you must have noticed this for your Ring Atoll remake. This variable will basically only affect maps like this, and in my opinion it will be a positive change to alter this variable from the 0.5 it is currently to 0.75, or 0.8

Strategia · Post by **Strategia** » 15 Jan 2007, 20:24

hunterw wrote:There is a variable that reduces ground units to a fraction of their normal speed when they are driving through shallow water.

I am here to campaign that this variable needs to be changed. Ground units are slowed down immensely in water; much more than in OTA. This destroys the balance of Ring Atoll type maps...land units are balanced to work well at their normal speed, and since they are at least 50% slower when trudging through shallow water, they become much less useful on this type of shallow water map.

NOiZE, you must have noticed this for your Ring Atoll remake. This variable will basically only affect maps like this, and in my opinion it will be a positive change to alter this variable from the 0.5 it is currently to 0.75, or 0.8

-1. Yeah, ground units will be slower, but for one anything moves much slower in water than on land, unless it changes how it moves (compare humans walking/swimming through, say, knee- or waist-deep water), and otherwise there's always the option to build hovercraft, airplanes or shallow-draft ships. Scouts have a whole new use on Ring Atoll; hit-and-run strikes on enemy attack forces, nipping away at their health while you prepare your defences.....

(Same goes for hovercraft, basically. Their armour and attack power might not be enough for a full-scale assault, but their speed enables them to perform hit-and-run strikes on basically any poorly-guarded target or slow-moving attack force.)

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 15 Jan 2007, 21:12

hunterw wrote:There is a variable that reduces ground units to a fraction of their normal speed when they are driving through shallow water.

which variable are you speaking about?

Edit: I think there is no such variable, so we need a patch first

hunterw · Post by **hunterw** » 15 Jan 2007, 22:06

that variable is hard coded?

looks like i'm asking in the wrong thread

FLOZi · Post by **FLOZi** » 15 Jan 2007, 22:29

NOiZE wrote:
hunterw wrote:There is a variable that reduces ground units to a fraction of their normal speed when they are driving through shallow water.
which variable are you speaking about?

Edit: I think there is no such variable, so we need a patch first

Can easily get around it using set MAX_SPEED in the script, however. c.f. one of Smoth's gundams that flies around on water very quickly and walks on land

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 15 Jan 2007, 22:34

FLOZi wrote:
NOiZE wrote:
hunterw wrote:There is a variable that reduces ground units to a fraction of their normal speed when they are driving through shallow water.
which variable are you speaking about?

Edit: I think there is no such variable, so we need a patch first

Can easily get around it using set MAX_SPEED in the script, however. c.f. one of Smoth's gundams that flies around on water very quickly and walks on land

Kool, I will look into it.

Spring RTS Engine

Balanced Annihilation v4.7 !!