Balanced Annihilation v4.7 !!

tombom · Post by **tombom** » 08 Jan 2007, 13:37

1v0ry_k1ng wrote:and my team hadnt got more than about 10 mobile units to help me with because they were so busy porcin it up. atm the LLT is too cheap in my oppinion, players often make a long line of them right infront of their base "2 stop raders lolol"
just an oppinion :)

That's to do with crappy players. LLTs are cheap to stop early weasel attack killing your base and aren't intended to hold off anything even remotely serious. Defences don't get much better at T2 and artillery kills everything. If you're kbots your teammates should help.

Machiosabre · Post by **Machiosabre** » 08 Jan 2007, 13:52

I think your own example already explains that porcing doesn't work, they screwed you over by not making any units and not advancing right? and you lost? sounds right to me.

ZellSF · Post by **ZellSF** » 08 Jan 2007, 15:38

1v0ry_k1ng, it's not easy to porc in BA because LLTs are cheap. You need about 3x the metal cost of a LLT to overpower it, if you don't have three places to attack the enemy, then you obviously are playing at a map far more porcy than Altored_Divide and really in no position to complain about how porcy that map is.

If the enemy builds only LLTs, you don't even need three places to attack the enemy, outrange them with units and one will be enough.

Don't ask for something to be changed in Balanced Annihilation because you play with poor players.

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 08 Jan 2007, 15:46

ZellSF wrote:Don't ask for something to be changed in Balanced Annihilation because you play with poor players.

Quoted for brilliance.

A wize game developer once said, you can only balance the game, not the players. BA is optimum if it balances at the highest end, that was the goal in starting it in the first place, it's not the problem of the devs if people can find ways to waste res because they are stupid.

Cabbage · Post by **Cabbage** » 08 Jan 2007, 18:49

On Comet I can take early mexes away from Cabbage and RedDragon with single scouts.

But you still lose

And LLT's arn;'t in anyway overpowered. micro a single rocko to kill one of you want. Ora sampson, or a janus, or a stumpy, or a shellshocker... They die quickly to anything. three peewees will easily kill one..

hrmph · Post by **hrmph** » 08 Jan 2007, 20:42

IMO llts are perfect in BA. I've watched so many replays of BA and wondered why these players (yes most of them are newbs) build so many llts. If they would just build some units and attack the game would turn in their favor. And thats how it should be: weak LLTs discourage porcing and encourage people to actually build and micro offensive units.

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 08 Jan 2007, 21:27

well, In the game I played, everyones initial BO involved at least 2 LLTs, then they advanced to a few more Mex's (each with a llt) which owned all raiders, then when the two groups met in the middle they made long lines of LLTs spaced out with nanotowers behind, then built a lrpc. I only build a pair of llts at the very front line and used groups of AKs to defeat raiders, then piled about 40 or so at the edge of the LLT line with my com at the back to d-gun anything tough, but the llts owned everything and took my com to red health before he could get into range. having used all my AKs in the attack, all three players on the opposing team piled forces at me since everyone else of my team was relying on LLTs and lrpcs, they couldnt really help.

maybe Im just too used to XTA or too crap at BA. or maybe my AK farm strats suck vs LLTs

hrmph · Post by **hrmph** » 08 Jan 2007, 21:47

1v0ry_k1ng wrote:maybe my AK farm strats suck vs LLTs

Thats the problem! Next time try thuds/hammers/rockos mixed with peewees/aks if you start as bots. Also level one artillery decimates LLTs (and HLTs to a lesser extent) by out-ranging them. Just scout with a fast unit and hammer the defenses from beyond their range.

Cabbage · Post by **Cabbage** » 08 Jan 2007, 23:00

I suggest nukes, trying anything else to break through those LLT's is risky tbh - be safe!

imbaczek · Post by **imbaczek** » 08 Jan 2007, 23:11

<sherlock>LLTs rape AKs and peewees.</sherlock>

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 08 Jan 2007, 23:26

Cabbage wrote:
On Comet I can take early mexes away from Cabbage and RedDragon with single scouts.
But you still lose

I lost one of the two, Cabbage. On a touch pad. And the second time I killed RedDragon with my first offensive.

Anyway, I agree on all the points about LLTs.

I generally use artillery to outrange them. Or rocket kbots to micro pop them. Or Samsons when it turns out nobody is using aircraft. Or any level one combat aircraft. Or the rocket hovercraft. Or I could just rush with a group of shorter range units. So really, I can counter and penetrate them multiple ways from basic factories. I'm not even a great player.

Anyway, can we get back to legit balance issues?

Peekaboom · Post by **Peekaboom** » 08 Jan 2007, 23:36

are there any balance issues?

I'm inclined to let this version mellow for a while and see if anything substantial crops up. Things are looking pretty good.

I'd still like to see the flagships loose some of their anti-air capabilities.

LordMatt · Post by **LordMatt** » 09 Jan 2007, 02:03

maybe my AK farm strats suck vs LLTs

llts are for killing raiding units like jeffies/weasels/fleas/AKs/Peewees/and isolated flash/gator. Rockos own them, as do stumpies and artillery.

BoredJoe · Post by **BoredJoe** » 09 Jan 2007, 02:26

is this thread for discussion about BA or is it for discussion about BA balance issues Oo

zecrazyone · Post by **zecrazyone** » 09 Jan 2007, 03:39

Peekaboom wrote:are there any balance issues?

I'm inclined to let this version mellow for a while and see if anything substantial crops up. Things are looking pretty good.

I'd still like to see the flagships loose some of their anti-air capabilities.

the balance issues that i notice is that merls/diplomats need to be improved, bantha needs to be improved or krogoth needs to be weaker, triton need a major improvement, crocs need to have a lower dps, and snipers are OP.

Saktoth · Post by **Saktoth** » 09 Jan 2007, 08:25

Mellowing = stagnation. One of the advantages of BA has been its rapid updates. An advantage which is slipping. By all means, be discriminating in balance changes, but that doesnt mean dont make them at all.

One of the stated goals of BA is to get more use out of underused units, and there are plenty of them out there.

On that, are Twilights verymuch more effective than MM's? Considering that Twilights constantly drain E and if you ever E-stall or turn them off they get revealed and then ghosted for the enemy, + their 10% less effectiveness, + requiring a metal spot (Making them easy to find) + making expansion slower etc etc etc....

I know sometimes you build one and then giggle because it lasts the whole game and nobody spots it, but was the effort you went to to build it really worth what you got out of it?

Also: Capture bots. I know they are actually very effective, especially against tech1, but is the micro required to use them really worth it?

Res bots are another unit i dont see getting much use.

Strategia · Post by **Strategia** » 09 Jan 2007, 08:40

Saktoth wrote:Also: Capture bots. I know they are actually very effective, especially against tech1, but is the micro required to use them really worth it?

If you're being driven back by poorly watched units, then yeah. Turn your enemy's own armies against him.

Res bots are another unit i dont see getting much use.

Then use them. If your defences kill a lot of enemy units, you can do three things with the wreckage;
1.) leave it there to rot, so that the enemy can bombard your defences from beyond your range while you cannot send out units to counter their artillery;
2.) reclaim it for metal;
or 3.) rez it all and raise an army of zombies to rule the world.

Strategia · Post by **Strategia** » 09 Jan 2007, 08:45

Saktoth wrote:Also: Capture bots. I know they are actually very effective, especially against tech1, but is the micro required to use them really worth it?

If you're being driven back by a poorly watched hostile army, then it can be useful to turn that army against him.

Res bots are another unit i dont see getting much use.

Then use them. If, for instance, your defences kill a lot of enemy units you can do three things with the wreckage;
1.) Leave it there to rot, allowing your opponent(s) to build up a swarm of artillery to take out your defences without you being able to send out units to counter them;
2.) Reclaim it for fast metal;
or 3.) Rez them all and raise an army of zombies to rule the world.

Really, there is no way to really "make" these units more useful, except giving them hueg liek xbox health, which would be making them OP. It's all about the situation; if you're in a situation where you can use them, it's up to you to do so. If you don't get into such a situation, then don't bother with them. There is little or nothing the modders can do about this.

quantum · Post by **quantum** » 09 Jan 2007, 09:26

1) Combomb an enemy.
2) Rez his and your commander.
3) Repeat with both.

Extra style points if it's com ends, and you combombed your first enemy with his napped ally.

Rez bots would be a lot more interesting if they were level 1: they would give you access lvl2 units without having to tech up. It would be hard to balance though.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 09 Jan 2007, 09:47

Man, ever since I stopped going Kbots, I've slipped out of my Rez plays...

Spring RTS Engine

Balanced Annihilation v4.7 !!