The Lost Legacy Reborn
http://www.fileuniverse.com/?p=show&a=it&id=4113
Before trying it keep in mind the following:
It is very incomplete
There are no sounds, no corpses, no explosions and only L1 ground and air. The purpose is to verify if the balance is going well before i waste more time in a balance that may not be suitable.
Feedback
"The purpose is to verify if the balance is going well before i waste more time in a balance that may not be suitable."
I won't ask fedback about this often. If you want to speak about the path the balance of TLL-Reborn is taking, this is the time, before i set off to applying this model into everything.
And i will greatly apreciate if anyone who plays uploads and posts link to the replay (especially if it has any complaints about it .. or even if not).
tips:
[size=0]The Supreme Commander
Your commander is quite slow. At start, you better not plan great lengths of walking with him. He also gives you plenty of resources so you will not want to lose him, even if comm dead != game ends. All that to help the comm beeing more of a defensive weapon than otherwise. Also, it has no D-Gun. Instead, it has 2 states Off and On. While On, it will consume lots of metal and energy but will turn on a shield (very long rechange time) and have a mean ass yellow laser (beware, that laser is berserk and won't avoid hiting your own units).
Game Balance
Everything is quite tough! This decrease of volatility is intended with the aim of helping counter many gameplay issues. This makes it so that units like the Zippers in XTA can't waste all of your resource makers in just a few seconds that the unit got past. Makes it much harder to create unpassable choke points where the enemies are wasted by defenses even before they can fire one shot back. Takes much less micromanagement in general.
If units and turrets are tough in general, "armoured" ones are even tougher. The bot Rainman and the Vehicle Ariman. If you want to roll through a battlefield use those.
If you want to quickly raid the enemy, you are better off using "assault" units. The Private bot and the Ares vehicle. They move faster.
Don't expect a few tesla towers or one or two HLTs to kill units quickly, they will need help or the enemy can just pass through them.
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Building
Factories are 5x more effective building units than regular builders. And since a builder costs almost as much as a factory, if you need more units, you are much better off building more factories. That is, it is very little benefitial to have cons guarding factories. And since almost everything is quite cheap, you will quickly need more factories and have large quantities of units to pound the enemy's large armies. You will probably want to start by building at least 3 solars.
Testing version number 3 of TLLR
Moderator: Moderators
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PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
Testing version number 3 of TLLR
Last edited by PauloMorfeo on 22 Dec 2006, 06:11, edited 1 time in total.
From the test i did with you, and a little offline tinkering, its looking good paulada. I do love the fast zipper-esque style of XTA, but i can see why you would not want TLL playing like that.
One thing i noticed was that when commander "goes turbo" his normal laser outranges his uber-beam-of-death and upon an attack order, he moved to within range of his normal weapon, not the yellow one.
One thing i noticed was that when commander "goes turbo" his normal laser outranges his uber-beam-of-death and upon an attack order, he moved to within range of his normal weapon, not the yellow one.
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PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
I tested it in a few games. Off for some insight (for who cares and to me for the record).
My first plan was making this unit:
be used as a galactic gate. We would start with that building, imovable, medium~large build radius, and very strong defensively. Later transforming into the commander, when the game is more capable of handling a powerfull commander. One of the reasons i kept requesting that spawning units be implemented. Now i can work around that because we can limit units (even though i would still prefer to spawn the comander instead of making some work around and it would be very usefull for much other things). So i will change to start with a galactic gate which will allow the commander to arrive later, which will allow him to be properly powerfull.
Volatility is too decreased. Things take too long to die. I actually made it so with much longer ranges in mind, which would lead to long fights, like we had in oTA with those swarms of samsons which fire very far and do little dmg, ending in fights so long that we would leave them fighting and go do base building. Then, before the battles would be resolved, more swarms would be arriving already, haha. But then i switched to low ranges so it feels bigger in small maps, which i like so much. I am going to decrease HPs.
My first plan was making this unit:
be used as a galactic gate. We would start with that building, imovable, medium~large build radius, and very strong defensively. Later transforming into the commander, when the game is more capable of handling a powerfull commander. One of the reasons i kept requesting that spawning units be implemented. Now i can work around that because we can limit units (even though i would still prefer to spawn the comander instead of making some work around and it would be very usefull for much other things). So i will change to start with a galactic gate which will allow the commander to arrive later, which will allow him to be properly powerfull.
Volatility is too decreased. Things take too long to die. I actually made it so with much longer ranges in mind, which would lead to long fights, like we had in oTA with those swarms of samsons which fire very far and do little dmg, ending in fights so long that we would leave them fighting and go do base building. Then, before the battles would be resolved, more swarms would be arriving already, haha. But then i switched to low ranges so it feels bigger in small maps, which i like so much. I am going to decrease HPs.
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PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
I admit, the devastator is indeed very cool but.. Do you have any other idea for a galactic gate...? That unit is just screaming "Galactic Gate"...Strategia wrote:Why are you turning the Devastator into a galactic gate? I love that gun!
Besides, BB-like weapons override any use that Vulcans/Chainsaws/Devastators may have. They are never used, so i thought it wouldn't be missed greatly.
Well..... TBH IMO it doesn't really look like a galactic gate, but YMMV. Maybe a bit of creativity with some other model(s) would yield an equal or better result. Like, for instance, take the Dev model anyway, make it larger, add some greebles and stuff, and retexture it. You still have the Devastator, as well as the galactic gate, but there are obvious differences between the two.PauloMorfeo wrote:I admit, the devastator is indeed very cool but.. Do you have any other idea for a galactic gate...? That unit is just screaming "Galactic Gate"...Strategia wrote:Why are you turning the Devastator into a galactic gate? I love that gun!
They can be used in some situations, and can really make a difference if used properly. Possibly even more so than regular LRPCs. It's like an LRPC only more so; powerful, but also a liability.Besides, BB-like weapons override any use that Vulcans/Chainsaws/Devastators may have. They are never used, so i thought it wouldn't be missed greatly.
And of course it's fun to totally wreck 15 AIs with a battery of Devastators
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PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
New testing version for testing. Version 3:
http://www.fileuniverse.com/?p=show&a=it&id=4113
This time we start with a awsomely cool Galactic Gate.
Volatility has been greatly increased from v1 to v2 and, again, slightly to v3. From v2 to v3 all costs got slightly increased and it is, now, less easy to have so much units that we can hardly control them.
I'm actually pretty hapy with this balance. RAI also plays it very well and often wins me, as long as it starting with a commander instead of a galactic gate (otherwise it won't do anything). I will try to give it some real testings and should finally move on to implement this balance to everything.
http://www.fileuniverse.com/?p=show&a=it&id=4113
This time we start with a awsomely cool Galactic Gate.
Volatility has been greatly increased from v1 to v2 and, again, slightly to v3. From v2 to v3 all costs got slightly increased and it is, now, less easy to have so much units that we can hardly control them.
I'm actually pretty hapy with this balance. RAI also plays it very well and often wins me, as long as it starting with a commander instead of a galactic gate (otherwise it won't do anything). I will try to give it some real testings and should finally move on to implement this balance to everything.
I like it but....
I have looked at the old TLL for Spring vs. this one. I like the warp gate and supreme commander thing, but one flaw I see is that fixing the old TLL might have been easier. It's nice to see you added your own textures and projectiles, but showing pictures on the forum couldn't hurt. And as with the other TLL team color is needed.
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PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
After 2nd(?) test version, the tips became out of date. I didn't wanted to delete, cause i might needed them later, so i made them size 0.eddy wrote:is it only me or the tips are "small"...
Maybe changing the older one would be easier. But it wouldn't end up as nicely as this one. Also, i wouldn't have control over the removal of Arm and Core. Since one of my objectives is making it stand alone, because Arm and Core are copyrights of Atari.rcdraco wrote:I have looked at the old TLL for Spring vs. this one. I like the warp gate and supreme commander thing, but one flaw I see is that fixing the old TLL might have been easier. It's nice to see you added your own textures and projectiles, but showing pictures on the forum couldn't hurt. And as with the other TLL team color is needed.
Also, i haven't posted any pics yet, because those were just small tests and stuff. I just wanted to test the game balance and i didn't even wanted much (possible) frenzy about it, since anyone trying these versions would actually end up disapointed, since they are so incomplete (no sounds and stuff).
That could be nice. I have mentioned that before, in some thread about Talon, me thinks.Noruas wrote:If you get the race working standalone, and i get permission from the talon team, i could merge it and make talon vs. tll....
Only thing i don't like about Talon is that cloning lab and clones... Mostly because, first it has living units, and second because they are the size of a .. bus or a truck. But, truth be told, i can live with that.
Also, there is a possible future problem of handling the balances. As it is now, the game balance i have decided to be final to apply to the whole TLLR mod, seems slightly similar to oTA/AA/BA, but it isn't and it is .. no matter. That must be taken into consideration.
Change the commander model so initially it is the same as that, but the current model is hidden via the script. Make the script set its max speed to zero. Then at some point play a transformation animation and make unhide the full commander and set its max speed up again and hey presto your unit has transformed from a hub into a fully fledged commander.My first plan was making this unit:
be used as a galactic gate. We would start with that building, imovable, medium~large build radius, and very strong defensively. Later transforming into the commander, when the game is more capable of handling a powerfull commander. One of the reasons i kept requesting that spawning units be implemented. Now i can work around that because we can limit units (even though i would still prefer to spawn the comander instead of making some work around and it would be very usefull for much other things). So i will change to start with a galactic gate which will allow the commander to arrive later, which will allow him to be properly powerfull.
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PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
That would actually work but. There are many issues with that.AF wrote:...
Change the commander model so initially it is the same as that, but the current model is hidden via the script. Make the script set its max speed to zero. Then at some point play a transformation animation and make unhide the full commander and set its max speed up again and hey presto your unit has transformed from a hub into a fully fledged commander.
First, as a hub, it shows build ranges and won't even bother trying to build anything it can't (in next ver). As a unit of speed 0, it will try to build anything anywhere and we won't have a clue of up to where it will be able to build.
I can't model sheet. Well, i can .. delete a piece, change the name of a piece, even though that is useless, and resize a model. That would require joining the 2 models, having a huge colision sfere once in comander mode.
It wouldn't allow to have diferent stats like build power, HP, etc.
It would be a nightmare to script.