EE version 0.173 Final (no more stuffs)
Moderator: Moderators
+1Candleman wrote:I'm just worried about teamcolor screwing up people's heads. Maybe a small symbol, if not on the units then on the buildpics...?
AA Missile: A single long rocket with fins.
Rocket: Two short rockets side-by-side.
Plasma: A side view of a plasma bullet.
Shotgun: Three shells side-by-side.
Mortars/Artillery: Big shell.
Cannon (GD standard-issue): Small shell.
Fire: Small flame.
EMP: Blue lightning bolt.
Laser: Laser symbol. (i.e. beam with small starburst at its end)
Something like that. Not too big, not too small, maybe in the upper-left corner of the buildpic?
already there... and as far as the shells... they would be fed from a drum or something.Candleman wrote:I'd rather it was more a matter of props than colors.
Mortars/artillery: Longer, up-tilting barrels
Missiles: Prominent missile pods
AA missiles: Missile pods with a radar dish or something
shotgun: Fat, short barrels with shells on the sides
When ni is done, I can do what I can but the fx system is not that good.Candleman wrote:Lightening(ni): If the above is possible, than maybe some crackling lightning on the gun
Yep on that.Candleman wrote:Fire: red tanks, for fuel
cannot do pulsing on a 3do.Candleman wrote:Plasma: maybe a pulsing barrel/weapon??
Stratega, good bp suggestions!
Why dont you take inspiration from the E2150 game and use that sort of build menu? Nice big scrolling build lists with 3d models spinning grouped into categories.
Aside from that simply making the side menu buttons somewhat larger would make a big improvement.
As for colour coding, the problem is how do you make a new person associate a colour with a type in their first game? The only previous associations they carry along with them would be red for weapons, yellow for energy/power bqd yellow with black stripes for construction.
I also think a small diagonal covering the corner would be better than a complete frame around the build pic for colours..
Aside from that simply making the side menu buttons somewhat larger would make a big improvement.
As for colour coding, the problem is how do you make a new person associate a colour with a type in their first game? The only previous associations they carry along with them would be red for weapons, yellow for energy/power bqd yellow with black stripes for construction.
I also think a small diagonal covering the corner would be better than a complete frame around the build pic for colours..
Aside from the unit differentiation problem and fiddling with GUI, does anyone who actually played the mod have any balance issues, bugs findings that they do not think Im already aware of..
I wont actually be able to do anything about them for a while but Knowing them ahead of time will allow me to formulate an Idea..
I wont actually be able to do anything about them for a while but Knowing them ahead of time will allow me to formulate an Idea..
Ive played a bit of EE, but i dont pretend to be terribly good. Still, perhaps my input might be helpful.
Porciness
It seems to be either decided in the first 5 minutes, or become an incredibly prolonged and drawn out artillery war. Perhaps its just that people arent confident enough yet in EE to play aggressively, but in my experience it can get very porcy. Once defensive lines are drawn, its very hard to break them. Sort of 'Expand and then sit there lobbing shells at eachother for half an hour'.
Porciness is especially a problem on small maps, team games, or maps with any sort of bottlenecking, even if its just a few mountains and seas here and there to break up the landscape.
Teching to 2 in this circumstance isnt as good as it might be, as it doesnt really give you much better artill (If fact despite its extra range, it is lower DPS, and thus in many circumstances, worse) and the other units are slower/larger, making them not verymuch better than tech 1 at breaking defensive gridlock. Note that despite what the Wiki says, GD doesnt seem to have much of an advantage in these Artil wars.
Ion Cannons
The Ion Cannon is not terribly effective in its role. Stun weapons need to have considerably larger AoE's and damage in order to be useful. In most cases, a unit is dead long before the Ion Cannon can stun it. In fact, it took me a very long time to realise that the Ion Cannon was a stun weapon at all!
Flamer
The Fire Ant is very effective vs buildings, especially factories, because of the buildings large footprint. Is this as intended, or are they meant to be anti-flood weapons?
Ships
This is a problem with every mod ive played. Hell, every RTS ive played. Ships just arent very good. It is very hard to take a beach to make a landing using ships, and on their own even level 2 artillery ships can do little to the enemies economy. Thus, water divided maps tend to get real porcy, which is only broken by amphibs or smart early airdrops (if you are lucky).
Hope thats helpful...
Porciness
It seems to be either decided in the first 5 minutes, or become an incredibly prolonged and drawn out artillery war. Perhaps its just that people arent confident enough yet in EE to play aggressively, but in my experience it can get very porcy. Once defensive lines are drawn, its very hard to break them. Sort of 'Expand and then sit there lobbing shells at eachother for half an hour'.
Porciness is especially a problem on small maps, team games, or maps with any sort of bottlenecking, even if its just a few mountains and seas here and there to break up the landscape.
Teching to 2 in this circumstance isnt as good as it might be, as it doesnt really give you much better artill (If fact despite its extra range, it is lower DPS, and thus in many circumstances, worse) and the other units are slower/larger, making them not verymuch better than tech 1 at breaking defensive gridlock. Note that despite what the Wiki says, GD doesnt seem to have much of an advantage in these Artil wars.
Ion Cannons
The Ion Cannon is not terribly effective in its role. Stun weapons need to have considerably larger AoE's and damage in order to be useful. In most cases, a unit is dead long before the Ion Cannon can stun it. In fact, it took me a very long time to realise that the Ion Cannon was a stun weapon at all!
Flamer
The Fire Ant is very effective vs buildings, especially factories, because of the buildings large footprint. Is this as intended, or are they meant to be anti-flood weapons?
Ships
This is a problem with every mod ive played. Hell, every RTS ive played. Ships just arent very good. It is very hard to take a beach to make a landing using ships, and on their own even level 2 artillery ships can do little to the enemies economy. Thus, water divided maps tend to get real porcy, which is only broken by amphibs or smart early airdrops (if you are lucky).
Hope thats helpful...
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1v0ry_k1ng
- Posts: 4656
- Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 10:24
Im assuming your insane when you say porciness, porcing in EE is supremely difficult in comparison to XTA/AA, just make a spearhead of l2 followed by a l2 swarm and bombers and hit a single spot on the edge of the line.
Ion owns if used correctly. use them to stun defences before an incursion, to stun--> reclaim scouts, an 2-3 at edge of GD fire lines where shots will pass through multiple enemies to mess up URC armies. they are more effective VS URC as GD have more HP/unit. try the l3 ION unit, mega stun pow0r.
flamers and lasers are close range assault. both have a large bonus VS buildings but short range.
personally I find navies effective in the right map, for example, okiriver.
Ion owns if used correctly. use them to stun defences before an incursion, to stun--> reclaim scouts, an 2-3 at edge of GD fire lines where shots will pass through multiple enemies to mess up URC armies. they are more effective VS URC as GD have more HP/unit. try the l3 ION unit, mega stun pow0r.
flamers and lasers are close range assault. both have a large bonus VS buildings but short range.
personally I find navies effective in the right map, for example, okiriver.
That has been my experience im afraid. Ive only played a handful of games where it didnt turn into a porcfest. Ive used masses of l2 units, they just get chewed up by defense and artil (Especially if they also have l2).
Still, im not that good at the game, and nor i assume are most of the people i play against, and porcing is generally what noobs do.
Honsetly, why these weapons are included at all in a game which isnt meant to be about porcing is beyond me.
Still, im not that good at the game, and nor i assume are most of the people i play against, and porcing is generally what noobs do.
How on earth are you going to get l3 anything if there is no porciness?try the l3 ION unit, mega stun pow0r.
Honsetly, why these weapons are included at all in a game which isnt meant to be about porcing is beyond me.Ahh so thats what lasers are for. I did wonder. Flamers are meant to be anti building too? Okay. I thought they were anti-swarm (Thats generally what flamers are used for in most games, and thats how they behave, hitting a huge area).flamers and lasers are close range assault. both have a large bonus VS buildings but short range.
it is possible to have more than one purpose on a unit, but no flamers are not anti swarm..
saktoth, most of what youve just said confuses the hell out of me as I HAVE never seen that happen recently, have you been using the aircraft/teching up properly.. and lvl 2 artillery not useful, are you joking it does FAR FAR more damage to buildings and emplacements and has nearly 2x the range of the lvl 1 artillery..
Also URC has several Key methods of completely by passing a defensive line such as all terrain transports at lvl 2 that are cloaked and cloaked units as well, and amphibious units, If you want to secure a beachhead you need to have lvl 2 ships or better, lvl ships are for sea control not attacking ground targets, lvl 3 ships are best for this, and Im not sure why teching to lvl 3 would be bad in a porc fest as lvl 3 gives you access to your 2 most potent weapons against porcing, super weapons and lvl 3 artillery, both of which are devistating to a area of static targets...
Id really have to watch a replay....
saktoth, most of what youve just said confuses the hell out of me as I HAVE never seen that happen recently, have you been using the aircraft/teching up properly.. and lvl 2 artillery not useful, are you joking it does FAR FAR more damage to buildings and emplacements and has nearly 2x the range of the lvl 1 artillery..
Also URC has several Key methods of completely by passing a defensive line such as all terrain transports at lvl 2 that are cloaked and cloaked units as well, and amphibious units, If you want to secure a beachhead you need to have lvl 2 ships or better, lvl ships are for sea control not attacking ground targets, lvl 3 ships are best for this, and Im not sure why teching to lvl 3 would be bad in a porc fest as lvl 3 gives you access to your 2 most potent weapons against porcing, super weapons and lvl 3 artillery, both of which are devistating to a area of static targets...
Id really have to watch a replay....
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
#1 reasons to go level3
All the units in lv3. For urc, specifically, stealth/cloaked flamer. Shotgun mech.
GD: Caucus=gatling arty, Nuke arty, Ural (Battle tank=super pwn), laser tank (eats urc for breakfast).
But remember, don't ever send in lv2 or lv3 unsupported. These units are not one man armies. Always send in lv1 with lv2 or lv3. Always...
All the units in lv3. For urc, specifically, stealth/cloaked flamer. Shotgun mech.
GD: Caucus=gatling arty, Nuke arty, Ural (Battle tank=super pwn), laser tank (eats urc for breakfast).
But remember, don't ever send in lv2 or lv3 unsupported. These units are not one man armies. Always send in lv1 with lv2 or lv3. Always...
Pavost vs Aurora
It has 60% more range, not double. Considerable, ill admit, but the damage is not that much more (considering the cost).
Comparing the lvl1 Pavost GD artil to the lvl2 Aurora GD artil, against 'base'. The Aurora does 52 DPS, the Pavost 49. Against default and lvl1 the Aurora does 40 DPS vs the Pavosts 49. The Aurora costs almost 4x as much as the Pavost, for comparable damage!
Breaking porc with tech2 and 3
This is your porc breaking solution? Lvl2 and 3? On a map with reasonable metal, you have to porc to get to lvl2 and 3. This is what porcing is all about- tucking in your head and teching up to larger weapons and a better econ.
So your solution to break a porc, is to porc harder?
As it happens, few of the games ive played have gotten to tech3. Jeeze they arent THAT porcy. The players expand, they set up defensive lines, and then the defensive lines sit there exchanging artillery fire for half an hour to an hour while everyone techs and masses enough units to break through. Tech 2 is usually enough to be decisive in these battles, but only with a large massed force (Which takes time).
I really expected small scale skirmishes, raging turfwars and a battle that swings back and forth. Not 'Sit around and build a big enough force to break the line'.
I dont mind that if thats what the game is about, a lot of RTS's are and they are still fun. Its just counter intuitive given what the mod is called and what everyone says about it.
Naturally, in the first 5 minutes or so, when borders are being decided, it is verymuch 'expand and exterminate'. Rushing can be very effective, and it is a turf war. But once lines become established, it very quickly bogs down.
Anyway, this is merely my personal experience. I hope its helpful.
It has 60% more range, not double. Considerable, ill admit, but the damage is not that much more (considering the cost).
Comparing the lvl1 Pavost GD artil to the lvl2 Aurora GD artil, against 'base'. The Aurora does 52 DPS, the Pavost 49. Against default and lvl1 the Aurora does 40 DPS vs the Pavosts 49. The Aurora costs almost 4x as much as the Pavost, for comparable damage!
Breaking porc with tech2 and 3
This is your porc breaking solution? Lvl2 and 3? On a map with reasonable metal, you have to porc to get to lvl2 and 3. This is what porcing is all about- tucking in your head and teching up to larger weapons and a better econ.
So your solution to break a porc, is to porc harder?
As it happens, few of the games ive played have gotten to tech3. Jeeze they arent THAT porcy. The players expand, they set up defensive lines, and then the defensive lines sit there exchanging artillery fire for half an hour to an hour while everyone techs and masses enough units to break through. Tech 2 is usually enough to be decisive in these battles, but only with a large massed force (Which takes time).
I really expected small scale skirmishes, raging turfwars and a battle that swings back and forth. Not 'Sit around and build a big enough force to break the line'.
I dont mind that if thats what the game is about, a lot of RTS's are and they are still fun. Its just counter intuitive given what the mod is called and what everyone says about it.
Naturally, in the first 5 minutes or so, when borders are being decided, it is verymuch 'expand and exterminate'. Rushing can be very effective, and it is a turf war. But once lines become established, it very quickly bogs down.
Anyway, this is merely my personal experience. I hope its helpful.
Those are some interesting numbers.. I must admit I have been away from the numbers for a while so that slipped my mind.
Honestly I would like to look into this.. however Id really like for someone (I dont think I can do it) to look at a replay youve got sakoth and confirm what is happening, or at least explain the situation, it may be something your doing wrong, or it could be a bug, Id like to find out.. the lvl 2 arty may need to be buffed given current situation, those numbers seem to hint at that..
Honestly I would like to look into this.. however Id really like for someone (I dont think I can do it) to look at a replay youve got sakoth and confirm what is happening, or at least explain the situation, it may be something your doing wrong, or it could be a bug, Id like to find out.. the lvl 2 arty may need to be buffed given current situation, those numbers seem to hint at that..
Victoria Crater 2v2 (unporcy), Corssing 4 final 2v2 (Porcy), 2x Crossing 4 final 1v1 (Over in the first few minutes with a single plasma mech rush), Lowland Crossing 1v1 (Porcy quagmire, artillery war, URC beat GD), Higher Grounds 2v2 (Unporcy), Arctic Plains 2v2 (maybe a lil porcy), Archers Valley (maybe a lil porcy), Resting Place 2v2 (Hellish quagmire! Sea maps are so damn slow!)out of curiosity saktoth what maps were u playing on?? and i though we had a OMGWTFBBQ small maps aren't super fun disclaimer on E&E??? coulda sworn that was mentioned somehere (its not on the oh so imcomplete wiki)...
Thats the games of EE i played yesterday. As you can see, plenty of games were decisive early on and never got to the porc war (Usually because one side just had much better players). Im not saying its always a porc, just that when it does happen, its kinda severe.
Artillery
Ive done some number crunching on data from the modweb. Ive discovered a few things:
Firstly, despite artillery strength being stated as a real advantage of GD in the wiki, they are only very slightly better at tech 1 and 2 (To a negligible degree, really). I can give you the info dump if you like.
URC's jamming and cloaking gives them a real edge against bombardment, and their superior scouting allows them to spot for their own artillery more easily. Thus arguably, URC artillery is better.
Secondly, there is really no point building static Artillery. It is much more expensive, has less than 10% extra range, has identical (GD) or a very small amount of extra HP (URC) and does almost precisely the same damage.
Ion Cannons
Ive figured out why i cant get much use out of the ion cannon. The projectile moves fast enough that sometimes it will pass through an object entirely without hitting it (About 1 in 3 shots in my experience, depending on angle).
However, if you attack the ground with the ion cannon. thus lowering the angle you get quite a different effect!
Thats likely to do a lot more damage.
Perhaps if the Ion Cannon could be made to fire with a low angle, so that the projectile hits the ground sooner, or some other workaround?