Absolute Annihilation 2.3 Beta 2
Moderator: Moderators
Hight trajectory is for firing over hills and things like that... otherwise, what other reason could there possibly be?el_matarife wrote:I was hoping this version would fix the kludge range rings, no luck. Guess there's always beta 2.
One question about th morty, the AOE on its shot is so tiny I'm not sure high trajectory mode will be worth anything on smaller targets like LLTs, HLLTs, even HLTs are pretty small. Given the fact it won't be 100% accurate, I'm thinking everyone is going to still use low trajectory all the time.
Beta 2 posted:
http://downloads.sourceforge.net/ta-aa/AASpring23b2.zip
Range rings fixed, should now appear in mod lists as before, seaplanes can now float, minor adjustments.
What is the point of scouting and patrolling if radar can see everything?
It also makes raiding alot harder if 1 local radar can catch every unit that comes within miles? of it..
TBH, radar range seems adequate.. its just the rings that are misleading on a few..
But Caydr said he was still working on those Cosmetic things.
Jack, find out which radar units are too short, and give an example after testing those units to make clear what needs to be done, instead of assuming, it would help caydr alot more.
It also makes raiding alot harder if 1 local radar can catch every unit that comes within miles? of it..
TBH, radar range seems adequate.. its just the rings that are misleading on a few..
But Caydr said he was still working on those Cosmetic things.
Jack, find out which radar units are too short, and give an example after testing those units to make clear what needs to be done, instead of assuming, it would help caydr alot more.
I'm not particularly satisfied with the idea of making Mortys replace Dominators. Dominators are like Core's snipers [well not really since they have vlaunch missiles, but whatever]. Get los, decide what target you need to kill, launch missiles and send in the Pyros/Cans. Mortys are plasma spam, and while giving them high traj allows them to fire over hills, it still isn't quite the same role as Dominators, which are precision strike units. Mortys are for no-los, but radar operations, which is supported by their relatively faster rate of fire and lower damage per shot.
Radar just doesn't get built if its range is that short. Its far more useful to just build scout units, than try to line up a bunch of tiny radar circles. It's not surprising that proper radar range is one of the things that is advertised by people promoting BA.MR.D wrote:What is the point of scouting and patrolling if radar can see everything?
It also makes raiding alot harder if 1 local radar can catch every unit that comes within miles? of it..
TBH, radar range seems adequate.. its just the rings that are misleading on a few..
But Caydr said he was still working on those Cosmetic things.
Jack, find out which radar units are too short, and give an example after testing those units to make clear what needs to be done, instead of assuming, it would help caydr alot more.
Morty's are not Non-LOS units. They have next to 0 blast damage on shots and their very good accuracy makes them completely miss targets if they don't have LOS to target by (since radar targetting is so non-precise without at least 3 targeting facilities).
Radar range has been a topic for scrutiny in AA since it was nerfed and I have to agree with Lordmatt - it's better just to use scout units and other structures to gain LOS than use tonnes of radar towers. In AA 2.23 rarely do you see people make radar in 1v1s because theres not much point, and cost wise in the early minutes of a game it just puts you at a disadvantage (all be it a small one) so it becomes limited to use only at the front line in team battles where the static wars play out.
With radar at the range it's at in BA it is a much more useful thing to have, and the difference with and without radar is clearly noticable, so taking out the enemy's first radar can be a smart move if you want to kill his awareness of enemy structures/unit movement at considerable range.
Dominators differentiate arm kbots from core more than most and are a widely used unit in the core arsenal. Why they are being removed is beyond me and doesnt make sense to me. Some justification for this??
Radar range has been a topic for scrutiny in AA since it was nerfed and I have to agree with Lordmatt - it's better just to use scout units and other structures to gain LOS than use tonnes of radar towers. In AA 2.23 rarely do you see people make radar in 1v1s because theres not much point, and cost wise in the early minutes of a game it just puts you at a disadvantage (all be it a small one) so it becomes limited to use only at the front line in team battles where the static wars play out.
With radar at the range it's at in BA it is a much more useful thing to have, and the difference with and without radar is clearly noticable, so taking out the enemy's first radar can be a smart move if you want to kill his awareness of enemy structures/unit movement at considerable range.
Dominators differentiate arm kbots from core more than most and are a widely used unit in the core arsenal. Why they are being removed is beyond me and doesnt make sense to me. Some justification for this??
Proper? or excessive?
And thats a matter of Opinion, as you could argue it either way.
If its things like the Floating radar ranges, then I completely agree that they need to match standard radar ranges just like any other unit.
For me the short to medium radar range, is both benefitial and promotes the use of active patrols and scouting for coverage when radar range is a bit smaller.
Massive LVL-1 radar ranges makes early assaults and raids very hard when the enemy can see them from across the map and instantly respond to it before those enemy units are even in threat range.
I think its good, not to know exactly where the enemy is all the time, and it makes it exciting and makes scouting and patrolling all the more valuable.
What to you would seem a fair radar range then? the same range as a guardian? twice that?
And thats a matter of Opinion, as you could argue it either way.
If its things like the Floating radar ranges, then I completely agree that they need to match standard radar ranges just like any other unit.
For me the short to medium radar range, is both benefitial and promotes the use of active patrols and scouting for coverage when radar range is a bit smaller.
Massive LVL-1 radar ranges makes early assaults and raids very hard when the enemy can see them from across the map and instantly respond to it before those enemy units are even in threat range.
I think its good, not to know exactly where the enemy is all the time, and it makes it exciting and makes scouting and patrolling all the more valuable.
What to you would seem a fair radar range then? the same range as a guardian? twice that?
I kinda agreeREVENGE wrote:I'm not particularly satisfied with the idea of making Mortys replace Dominators. Dominators are like Core's snipers [well not really since they have vlaunch missiles, but whatever]. Get los, decide what target you need to kill, launch missiles and send in the Pyros/Cans. Mortys are plasma spam, and while giving them high traj allows them to fire over hills, it still isn't quite the same role as Dominators, which are precision strike units. Mortys are for no-los, but radar operations, which is supported by their relatively faster rate of fire and lower damage per shot.
I can see where Caydr's coming from, but this could be a sign of lack of ingame experiencePeekaboom wrote:i can't believe dominators were removed.
That's just rediculous. Why not remove the can or the bulldog while you're at it. Those are also perfectly good useful units as well.
Sorry for the sarcasm, but common!
[flame me if I lie 
]. Honestly, Dominators are fun to spam to do hit and runs to break down them porcing nubs. Mortys just aren't the same...No I boosted L1 radars by 100 units, due to popular demand... IMHO radars are cheap enough that building a few of them doesn't break the bank.jackalope wrote:so AA still has ridiculously short radar ranges?
Radar range is between 1500 and 1600 depending on arm or core. The longest-ranged ground defense (annihilators) is 1450, and guardians are 1250.
I don't know what radar ranges are in BA, but it sounds like they're long enough to make dragon eyes and border patrols obsolete... you really think that's a good thing? To me it sounds like n00bifying all detection methods into one, kind of like putting anti-air and a torpedo launcher on goliaths.
Regarding dominators, yeah I've decided to put em back... Going to keep morties with high trajectory toggle though I think. Gives them a little extra usefulness.
Last edited by Caydr on 31 Dec 2006, 05:16, edited 1 time in total.
Read this statement:
And im sorry, but "Well, i thougt this would turn out like this" simply does not cut it. There are far too many intricacies in TA-style balance to run through a brief mental equation or simulation - that equation in your head is never going to be complete! And there's always going to be shit that gets churned out by it.
BA is so *right* because Day's mental simulation, so to speak, is built on years (yes years) of being one of the best players at this game. He knows what stuff does, he's played through it, and he knows how to make it *right*.
Caydr, why don't you just go work on one of your other projects? You're obviously a capable modder, just a pretty bad balancer. The * Annihilation franchise so to speak is in excellent hands, and any intervention on your part at this stage, sorry to say, could only hurt things.
Caydr, I'm going to iterate what everyone else has been saying: You're a nice guy, you've put a lot of work into this - but you're shooting in the dark here. You're randomly changing things around based on "sound good"ness, without real playtesting experience. Without real playing experience at all.Caydr wrote:No, BA has not been ignored. I read through its thread and implemented quite a few of the ideas, though not necessarily in identical ways. I also read through the AA thread and the AA forum... almost everything I thought sounded good was done, and the handful of other things are on my todo for sometime today.
I'll check my req's and replaces MRD, thanks.
And im sorry, but "Well, i thougt this would turn out like this" simply does not cut it. There are far too many intricacies in TA-style balance to run through a brief mental equation or simulation - that equation in your head is never going to be complete! And there's always going to be shit that gets churned out by it.
BA is so *right* because Day's mental simulation, so to speak, is built on years (yes years) of being one of the best players at this game. He knows what stuff does, he's played through it, and he knows how to make it *right*.
Caydr, why don't you just go work on one of your other projects? You're obviously a capable modder, just a pretty bad balancer. The * Annihilation franchise so to speak is in excellent hands, and any intervention on your part at this stage, sorry to say, could only hurt things.