Martial Artists

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » 28 Dec 2006, 04:01

Never tried much in the way of martial arts, just a little aikido and some very basic judo.

That said, in a street situation, I can outrun damn near anyone (unless they can throw down a few 5:00 miles in a row...). Being a runner for many years has its perks.

I wish I had more time to pursue the various martial arts some more - not so much for fights, just for the body control/knowledge aspect of it. I imagine its great crossover training for nordic skiing as well.

Comp1337 · Post by **Comp1337** » 28 Dec 2006, 12:09

malric wrote:I do not know what do you mean by whoop, but for sure there is a point beyond you can't go :D.. What there would have been 5 gansta at 10 feet with 5 guns pointing at him ?

From what I heard, japanese didn't even have the color system in the traditional schools. The fact was they just didn't clean the belt, so in time, after many years of practice it would have been black. As I'm not a historian this could be just a funny thing...

aye, i heard the dirty belt thing too

Deathblane · Post by **Deathblane** » 28 Dec 2006, 12:30

The belt going black thing is a myth, I mean can you imagine how foul it would have to be to go from white to black

Still it is true that there never used to be the multicolured belt system. The philiosophy was that before you get your balck belt you are still learning all the basics. The black blet was like a sign of graduation. Once you got that the real training could begin.

Thing is, if you take it back even further karate originaly existed as an Okinawen martial art. There weren't any schools or training manuels. Instead those who chose to specialise in the art would live around the country and train pupils in whatever way they wanted. It was very individual and the karate taught by three different masters would often be three very different styles of karate.

It's only when it was imported into Japanin the 1800's (I think) that it became the codefied styles we know today.

Incidently I fully agree that 99% of black belts are worth nothing in a real fight. This is because 99% of dojos train you to be a really good competition fighter, which has very little bareing on real fighting.

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 28 Dec 2006, 12:39

yeah but real fighting generally just consists of punching them in the neck or face while they are still talking themselves into it. pretty much whoever attacks first is gaurenteed to win as once youve been hit badly your body gives up. competition fighting is too fancy for real life anyway, lifting your leg above the ground to kick in a real fight usualy just results in falling on your back and then having a hulking rugby players shoe placed forcefully on your face afterward. real fighting = lose, best just to run away.

malric · Post by **malric** » 28 Dec 2006, 12:57

But anyhow 'real' fighting is totally useless and stupid - I never understand why people start fighting (for example at football matches, or if they hear something that they do not like). So running or avoiding is indeed most of the time the smartest choice

.

And I don't think I would like very much to break somebody's face. (for me it's enough to blow his commander at spring :p).

Machiosabre · Post by **Machiosabre** » 28 Dec 2006, 13:04

that's disgusting malric

but yeah real fighting isn't that great, some jerk will always bring a lead pipe and ruin it.

malric · Post by **malric** » 28 Dec 2006, 23:33

The part about the comm, or about the face ? (probably I'm not politically correct as there are mods without comm, and people where you can't say which is the face and which is the back

)

I do not think you think running is disgusting as you provided an example when it is the smartest choice

And to be back on topic I practiced aiki-jitsu for about five years, and now I'm doing some aikido (I changed because I moved to another place, not from other reasons)

BlackLiger · Post by **BlackLiger** » 29 Dec 2006, 01:52

malric wrote:The part about the comm, or about the face ? (probably I'm not politically correct as there are mods without comm, and people where you can't say which is the face and which is the back )

I do not think you think running is disgusting as you provided an example when it is the smartest choice

And to be back on topic I practiced aiki-jitsu for about five years, and now I'm doing some aikido (I changed because I moved to another place, not from other reasons)

You said blow, as in give a blow job to. You MEANT blow up.

malric · Post by **malric** » 29 Dec 2006, 07:46

Hmm. Thanks for the explanation, it is good to know

Deathblane · Post by **Deathblane** » 29 Dec 2006, 19:52

1v0ry_k1ng wrote:yeah but real fighting generally just consists of punching them in the neck or face while they are still talking themselves into it. pretty much whoever attacks first is gaurenteed to win as once youve been hit badly your body gives up. competition fighting is too fancy for real life anyway, lifting your leg above the ground to kick in a real fight usualy just results in falling on your back and then having a hulking rugby players shoe placed forcefully on your face afterward. real fighting = lose, best just to run away.

See now thats excatly what a good martial art should teach you, to a) respond to agression (without panicking) instantly b) to not be stunned by the first blow that hits you in the head.
Also you should learn how to kick repeatedly if need be without falling over.

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 29 Dec 2006, 21:43

a) is built in, if someone starts smack talking you just analyse the surrounds and other people in the area and make the decision of 1) hit first or 2) avoid fighting

b) I seriously doubt you could train someone not be stunned by a punch in the neck or eye tbh.

kicking is not a useful skill in *real* fights, it just means your unbalanced and attacking areas that wont do enough damage, hiting the crotch is very difficult because most fights occour in a stance with one leg infront of the other, which makes a direct ball hit very difficult and unadvisable. real fights end VERY fast. also, real fights happen in tight locations like bars where there isnt room to be doing fancy kicking crap. the real skill in a fight is to give the appearance of being submissive and non-violent while moving the attackers attention to somthing/someone else while you either run or hit them in the neck/eye/balls.

martial arts shares as much in common with real fighting as fencing does to a real swordfight tbh

duncs · Post by **duncs** » 29 Dec 2006, 22:50

a year of judo as a little kid

1.5 years of ju jitsu in university

about 2 years of wing chun kung fu, stopped doing that a couple of months ago.

now: bodybuilding. if I were to do more martial arts, it would be boxing/kickboxing. the no-sparring stuff really irritates me.

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 29 Dec 2006, 23:47

The trick to winning a hand to hand fight: Bring a knife

The trick to winning a knife fight: Bring a gun

The trick to winning a gun fight: Bring a bigger gun

The trick to winning a big gun fight: Bring a tank

The trick to winning a tank fight: Bring a nuke

The trick to winning a nuke fight: Don't get into nuke fights.

Deathblane · Post by **Deathblane** » 30 Dec 2006, 02:25

1v0ry_k1ng wrote: martial arts shares as much in common with real fighting as fencing does to a real swordfight tbh

To be honest, I really don't have enough personal experience to dissagree with you.
I've got plenty of anecdotal evidence from people at my dojo (one guy is now feared in his local council estate after a failed mugging led to him being attacked several times), and my sensei (yeah that cheap old argument

) has earned a living as a doorman and a bodyguard for many years.
Well either way I've seen and heard what you can do with a martial art and my dojo will make someone into a damn effective fighter.
Of course I can't speak for all the other sports focused useless competition based "pay your money and get a black belt" dojo's out there but hey...

Lindir The Green · Post by **Lindir The Green** » 30 Dec 2006, 04:03

There's a rumor about someone who graduated from my school being harrased by gang members when he was walking home from the dojo, so he supposedly beat one of them up, and then another one who came to his house with a gun.

Or so the rumor goes

But martial arts really were invented so that unarmed people could fight well, even against armed people, and they are used by the army and the police and stuff, so I have reason to believe that they at least somewhat accomplish their purpose.

Peet · Post by **Peet** » 30 Dec 2006, 04:09

A couple of thuggish characters tried to mug my cousin once....he's been in kung fu for 4 or 5 years. Knocked em cold :)

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 30 Dec 2006, 06:28

I know several ways to disarm a knife, and several ways to break a hold on me. My teacher, the good one that is, always said: "If you get in a [img]real[/img] fight, the first thing you should do is punch and kick until your enemy is down. Don't do anything fancy, and don't try anything complicated. Just a basic punch and a basic kick are all you need to defend yourself"

But me, I'm more of a sticks person. I can bash someone pretty good with my two foot long bamboo sticks. But the sticks are only practice for fighting with machetes, so give me some of those and I can do some REAL damage!

Peace · Post by **Peace** » 30 Dec 2006, 16:28

So I suppose you do Kali Zoombie? I've done that one the side of my main art (JKD) for a few years.

As for kicking not being a usefull skill in a real fight I have to say I don't agree with that at all and neither with the statement that martial arts has nothing in common with real fighting.

In JKD we practise kicking the shins, knees, groin which I'd say it's very effective. In a selfdefense situation (which is exclusively what we train for) I'd say kicking above the waist isn't of that much value (at least not for me). I can however attest to JKD guys that I know that has broken peoples knees...kicking definately is a usefull skill which has it's time and place.

And as for martial arts having nothing in common with real fighting: I mean how can you make a general statement like that? Did you try every martial art on the planet and did you fight every martial artist? I highly doubt that martial art is for everyone, some people just don't have "it". But I think for certain individuals it doesn't matter which art they study, they can make it work. In JKD we like to emphasize that we're all individuals and different from each other, thus what works for me may not work for you.

Lastly, I feel that there are many, many "armchair martial artists" on Internet forums. People that watch UFC or something and consider themselfes experts.

duncs · Post by **duncs** » 30 Dec 2006, 20:29

generally, it goes like this: the more practice you have, the better you get.

drilling is good for reflexes. my kung fu had a lot of drilling in it. this is good for defending against a punch. I can now defend against the average untrained person's punch.

how often do you see blocks and defends in things like UFC though? that's all about punch punch punch punch.

my kung fu had no sparring in it so while I think (if I were a d&d character) my dex has gone up by maybe 2 points, for certain things, eg my balance has improved, I don't think it'd be that much help in a stand-up street fight (and I did kung fu for TWO YEARS!)

my ju jitsu was all about 'sparring' judo style, and drilling ju-jitsu specific moves. I think the judo part was the best, 'cos it's something I actually did against someone else.

if I were to do a martial art again and actually expect it to work, I'd do boxing because boxing is a striking martial art that concentrates on body fitness and strength and you actually get to hit people in the face, which is good practice.

and: re the sensei who was a bouncer: he probably started small and got into doing the bigger clubs as he got more experience. I think black belt or not, you either have it in you to be a bouncer or you don't. the martial arts probably helped him a fair amount, though.

basically: sparring martial art > non-sparring martial art.

so my wing chun kung fu < karate/boxing/muay thai.

Peace · Post by **Peace** » 30 Dec 2006, 23:02

Yep, martial art without sparring is like learning to swim on dry land.
You can train the teqniques with drills but learning how to apply them on a restisting opponent (ie timing, controling the distance etc) is by far the most importment thing.

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Martial Artists