Balanced Annihilation v4.7 !!

ginekolog · Post by **ginekolog** » 15 Dec 2006, 09:01

flakers? nah. Static AA? rarely. Fighters? YES YES, soooo handy unit. And makes enemys gunships useless for attacking, (but still good for defending)

I think all current forms of AA are usefull though. So dont play with shit that works well

DemO · Post by **DemO** » 15 Dec 2006, 09:50

Hahah, controversial BA nerf has just been realised, but you'll never guess what! Just queried it with NOiZe, he's changing the error next version, but i'll leave it to him to tell you guys what he did, if he dares:)

Elmokki · Post by **Elmokki** » 15 Dec 2006, 12:47

I - either - don't remember when I last built a buzzsaw or a packo. I just tend to spam defenders.

Ishach · Post by **Ishach** » 15 Dec 2006, 12:59

I only build Chainsaws on metal maps. The build time/cost is a big investment for a T1 econ

el_matarife · Post by **el_matarife** » 15 Dec 2006, 15:25

Three quick balance change requests:

Put a little energy storage on Wind plants. They're the only energy source that doesn't have even a little storage now. 20-25 would probably be a fair amount, considering the Solar has 50. This is especially important given how variable wind is, so if you build an energy infrastructure dependent on wind, you usually need to build some energy storage buildings to ensure you don't run dry.

Next request: Reduce the build times on Juno anti-radar weapons. They're good units, but the build time on them is extremely long. The EMP / Tac Nuke missile launchers are both about 80,000 and the Juno is at 100,000 which seems a little crazy.

Finally, the Prude safe Geothermal plant takes longer to build than the Arm Moho Geo, even though it is both cheaper and makes less energy. (41347 build time vs 33152 on the Moho Geo) Could you reduce the build time on the Prude to a more reasonable level?

Peekaboom · Post by **Peekaboom** » 15 Dec 2006, 19:00

I don't think flakkers need to be performance nerfed, I would however like to see their resource cost and build time go up a bit. They should be the best static defense when things get rough, but they need to be expensive and require air planes to back them up.

Machiosabre · Post by **Machiosabre** » 15 Dec 2006, 21:59

el_matarife wrote:Three quick balance change requests:

Put a little energy storage on Wind plants. They're the only energy source that doesn't have even a little storage now. 20-25 would probably be a fair amount, considering the Solar has 50. This is especially important given how variable wind is, so if you build an energy infrastructure dependent on wind, you usually need to build some energy storage buildings to ensure you don't run dry.

Next request: Reduce the build times on Juno anti-radar weapons. They're good units, but the build time on them is extremely long. The EMP / Tac Nuke missile launchers are both about 80,000 and the Juno is at 100,000 which seems a little crazy.

Finally, the Prude safe Geothermal plant takes longer to build than the Arm Moho Geo, even though it is both cheaper and makes less energy. (41347 build time vs 33152 on the Moho Geo) Could you reduce the build time on the Prude to a more reasonable level?

Thats exactly what makes wind interesting, if you didn't have to anticipate a potential dropout of wind it'd just be another solar :-.

And the prude has that much build time because it has a ton of health and doesn't explode, it seems logical you'd have to invest a bit more time to get such a safe geo that still produces a good deal of energy.

jackalope · Post by **jackalope** » 15 Dec 2006, 23:56

Decrease Energy Storage buildtime?

It's currently about 8000 compard to metal storage's about 3000.

As it is now, only noobs or people without coms build E storage. M storage already has it's uses - for when you are reclaiming a lot or about to have excess metal, but E storage is almost useless.

Also, E storage is already cheap enough to build that if it was quicker to build, it would be a good solution to the post above about how Winds don't provide storage. In this way if you tried to build an econ based on Wind (saving metal by not building solars) you'd had a use for E storage and it also adds some risk in that you've got to put this big explody building in your base.

Anyways, I'd like to see a buildtime of 3000 or 4000 to be similar to metal storage.

(P.S. if you do change this please don't forget to make similar changes to advanced/underwater e storage etc)

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 15 Dec 2006, 23:56

The Juno is a highly specialized unit, and while I can see changing it, you will need to convince some people, The wind generators need no storage for balance, and for reasons explained above it would indeed be detrimental to give them such.

The Prude is... the Prude. Seldom used, worth it when you do, and I'm sure you'll have extra constructors around to help with it.

I agree with ginkeo on Anti-air.

el_matarife · Post by **el_matarife** » 16 Dec 2006, 00:01

Right, the variability is interesting. However, you are forced to build an energy storage facility quickly if you are going to use mostly wind generators. The energy storage facility can provide a good way to make sure you won't run out, and it will also provide storage if your commander dies. If you have a solar based economy, you'll still have storage, but with wind you'll have very little storage left. And when I said it is the only energy source without storage, I wasn't exaggerating at all. Currently, defense buildings have storage too, even the LLT of all things has 100 storage. Every construction unit has storage too. Wind is basically the last unit that deals with energy not to have any storage at all, and I think adding a small amount would probably be a good thing.

Edit: The build time and costs on the E storage facility aren't that bad even, they take as much metal as a medium tank and a somewhat bigger amount of energy last time I checked. If you build it with your commander it goes up fairly quick. The facility is still not something I would set next to anything I want to live, since I think it goes up with a bigger boom than a metal maker.

jackalope · Post by **jackalope** » 16 Dec 2006, 00:01

Peekaboom wrote:The only thing is that gunships can take out missile towers in a single burst/voll, and a pack of gunships can wade through a lot of missile towers without loosing much.

Of course, it has always seemed to me why build these random air defenses when you could be building flak or adv missile towers instead. Most people don't have gunships before you'd be able to build flak.

If you have 12 defenders the gunship microer has to individual select each one for an attack order, and there is a slight delay in time as they move between each tower. Additionally, Defenders also have more health per metal than packos (but not SAMs I guess). Personally when i make brawler swarms the AA I like to see most is 1 or 2 packos or SAMs so I can just make two attack orders and go to town on his base. Not that a swarm of Defenders is so hard to deal with, but sometimes you have to move around to get them all within your sight radius and make sure you found them all.

LordMatt · Post by **LordMatt** » 16 Dec 2006, 02:09

jackalope wrote: Anyways, I'd like to see a buildtime of 3000 or 4000 to be similar to metal storage.
(P.S. if you do change this please don't forget to make similar changes to advanced/underwater e storage etc)

+1

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 16 Dec 2006, 02:17

This will greatly improve my early game - since some hard lessons in E&E, I usually build energy storage in my first few buildings - at least three quarters of all AA games on wind maps...

Acidd_UK · Post by **Acidd_UK** » 16 Dec 2006, 04:01

Yeah make E storage quicker to build ftw!!! wooo!!!

Relative · Post by **Relative** » 16 Dec 2006, 09:40

jackalope wrote:
As it is now, only noobs or people without coms build E storage. M storage already has it's uses - for when you are reclaiming a lot or about to have excess metal, but E storage is almost useless.

E storage may have an excessive build time, but it's hardly useless. It's vital to have e storage in situations in which your metal supply relies upon energy conversion, or if your econ is wind based.

jackalope · Post by **jackalope** » 16 Dec 2006, 09:57

Relative wrote:
jackalope wrote:
As it is now, only noobs or people without coms build E storage. M storage already has it's uses - for when you are reclaiming a lot or about to have excess metal, but E storage is almost useless.

E storage may have an excessive build time, but it's hardly useless. It's vital to have e storage in situations in which your metal supply relies upon energy conversion, or if your econ is wind based.

I'll edit your post for you:

E storage may have an excessive build time, but it's hardly useless when you play GREENFIELDS. It's vital to have e storage in situations in which you play GREENFIELDS, or your econ is in GREENFIELDs.

all kidding aside, I know it's not useless, that's why I want it to be faster to build so we might see it in some non green fields games.

tombom · Post by **tombom** » 16 Dec 2006, 13:05

BUG: Anti air hovercrafts target land units, walking right up close to them.

Anti air hovercrafts seem horribly weak to me. I'd support an increase in cost and power - they do about the same damage and reload as the anti air T1 kbots and have double the cost. They have almost double the HP and can hover. In addition, the Core version is much more costly for a very small increase in HP.

Also I support having the Juno made cheaper. It currently takes longer to build than an Anti-Nuke, costs quite a bit more and has less HP. Its AOE is only slightly larger than a nuke, for something which effects much less. Its missile's E costs are 4x an anuke's. It takes 2 and a half minutes to reload, 30 seconds less than a nuke and a minute more than an anuke. The weapon velocity makes it take an incredibly long time to come down - 1/6 of the speed of an anuke.

el_matarife · Post by **el_matarife** » 17 Dec 2006, 07:15

If you want to talk weird targeting choices, medium tanks and a few other turreted tanks will attempt to target and shoot at air. I think they can occasionally hit a gunship if they get very lucky, but this seems like a waste of shots if there's any ground targets around. Also the Zeus, Pyro, and I think the two Dragon's Teeth looking turrets do the same thing.

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 17 Dec 2006, 18:42

Due to a mistake Mex extraction rate was lower then Exploiter/Twilight extraction rate. So we decided to release rather quick a fix for this. Now exploiters/twilight will extract 10% less then mexxes again.

Also we fixed some other issues

changelog wrote:Advanced Anti Air Kbots and AA hovers no longer follow ground units
Gave detpcharge some tracking again
Fixed the extraction rates of mexxes/twilights/exploiters, somehow they were mixed up
L1 Arty can shoot up hills again, due to faster weaponvelocity and hightrajectory
Floating radars can no longer be build on land
Adjusted sonar range rings, so that they reflect the real range
Builtime of Estorages reduced by 50 % (this included the underwater ones)
Reduced Ecosts and Builtime of the Juno by 20 %
Gave the Minelayer some AoE weapon, you still have to manual "attack" the enemy minefields

http://www.unknown-files.net/index.php? ... &dlid=2044

Enjoy!

Machiosabre · Post by **Machiosabre** » 17 Dec 2006, 19:39

so in every game of ba 4.33 we had 10% less metal in lvl1? that's crazy.

Spring RTS Engine

Balanced Annihilation v4.7 !!