some people are missing an important point:
jeffy and weasel cost almost the same, but weasel has better hp, dps, and range.
why?
Absolute Annihilation 2.23
Moderator: Moderators
1v0ry_k1ng wrote:is the core version slower or less turny?
USE http://froob.iamacup.com/AAmodweb FFSMR.D wrote:nope
the core one is slower!
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1v0ry_k1ng
- Posts: 4656
- Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 10:24
How about just make t2 labs cheaper to build, instead of fucking around with the intricacies of flash/gator constantly in search of some form of balance.
Honestly whats the point in constantly changing stats of T1 units when they are not in line with making T2 a viable option. Make T2 cheaper and games will have a lot more action, a lot sooner.
Nerfing flash/gator will only slow the game down. I like AA at the current action pace, why not keep it that way?
More units in play, more raids, more tech, more fun.
Honestly whats the point in constantly changing stats of T1 units when they are not in line with making T2 a viable option. Make T2 cheaper and games will have a lot more action, a lot sooner.
Nerfing flash/gator will only slow the game down. I like AA at the current action pace, why not keep it that way?
More units in play, more raids, more tech, more fun.
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El Capitano
- Posts: 156
- Joined: 13 Oct 2006, 10:48
You need to be careful going down that route. DoW went down the route of "faster tech ftw!" and the game basically became a race to higher techs, with T1 only being used for small skirmishes except in extreme examples.DemO wrote:Honestly whats the point in constantly changing stats of T1 units when they are not in line with making T2 a viable option. Make T2 cheaper and games will have a lot more action, a lot sooner.
Tech 1 is still highly effective and i find required with and against tech 2 in games as it stands, and if you're in any sort of mid-high level game you wont survive if you just jump tech without any l1 support to get your ground secured.
Mh, i'm not suggesting a vastly cheaper tech 2, just slightly cheaper, enough to make it a worthwhile transistion. As it stands just now tech is more or less always a risky option, due to the massive economy costs stopping one from keeping up with the enemy in terms of l1 mass.
A more than slightly cheaper tech 2 would cause problems i agree, and there are several factors which could make it a bad suggestion, but i'm just putting it forward for discussion, hell, maybe its a better idea than messing around with flash and gator balance all the time.
I didnt make it clear last post but i am suggesting only a very moderate reduction in tech 2 cost - just enough to make it a viable option earlier in games - a possibly good balance would to make the build time considerable but the cost slightly less than current, thus people reach tech 2 at same stage they do currently but at a lesser cost to economy (letting them fight it out with lvl 1 whilst teching up)
Its worth some consideration anyway, even if it is like walking on thin ice. Last thing I want is AA to change completely from one extreme to the other. (lvl 1 games to tech rush games)
Mh, i'm not suggesting a vastly cheaper tech 2, just slightly cheaper, enough to make it a worthwhile transistion. As it stands just now tech is more or less always a risky option, due to the massive economy costs stopping one from keeping up with the enemy in terms of l1 mass.
A more than slightly cheaper tech 2 would cause problems i agree, and there are several factors which could make it a bad suggestion, but i'm just putting it forward for discussion, hell, maybe its a better idea than messing around with flash and gator balance all the time.
I didnt make it clear last post but i am suggesting only a very moderate reduction in tech 2 cost - just enough to make it a viable option earlier in games - a possibly good balance would to make the build time considerable but the cost slightly less than current, thus people reach tech 2 at same stage they do currently but at a lesser cost to economy (letting them fight it out with lvl 1 whilst teching up)
Its worth some consideration anyway, even if it is like walking on thin ice. Last thing I want is AA to change completely from one extreme to the other. (lvl 1 games to tech rush games)
I don't support making tech 2 cheaper. A revert of scout units to 2.21 stats seems the best solution to start. Why were they buffed in the first place? O_o Its already been said that flash/gator balance is good, so a hp nerf seems in order for both units. And, of course, revert Radar to 2.21 stats and fix dgun!
Time for another ill informed XTA based post...
Teching is a lot cheaper in xta, and obviously by extension it happens more rapidly, more often; It is even viable to hit tech 2 on a frantic high level cooper hill 1v1 (though very risky).
Certain units in xta tech 2, especially vehicles, are pretty much dedicated to taking out t1. Spiders absolutely own all t1, as do levellers (equipped with nuts dps flamethrowers in xta). Very soon after one player hits t2, almost all t1 becomes relegated to supporting building or spamming anti air. While its never quite as simple as build X= win, often the player who manages to get the first 5 t2 units to the front wins.
I imagine the majority of half decent AA players (a lot of the better ones used to play a lot of XTA) would not appreciate a swing in this direction. This is pretty much pure speculation going off this forum and xta games with AA players though...
The high risk/reward of going for t2 in AA is an interesting dynamic, and something i percieve, as a noobish outsider, to be worth preserving.
Scout vehics, flashes and gators need balancing, not t2 (imHo)
Teching is a lot cheaper in xta, and obviously by extension it happens more rapidly, more often; It is even viable to hit tech 2 on a frantic high level cooper hill 1v1 (though very risky).
Certain units in xta tech 2, especially vehicles, are pretty much dedicated to taking out t1. Spiders absolutely own all t1, as do levellers (equipped with nuts dps flamethrowers in xta). Very soon after one player hits t2, almost all t1 becomes relegated to supporting building or spamming anti air. While its never quite as simple as build X= win, often the player who manages to get the first 5 t2 units to the front wins.
I imagine the majority of half decent AA players (a lot of the better ones used to play a lot of XTA) would not appreciate a swing in this direction. This is pretty much pure speculation going off this forum and xta games with AA players though...
The high risk/reward of going for t2 in AA is an interesting dynamic, and something i percieve, as a noobish outsider, to be worth preserving.
Scout vehics, flashes and gators need balancing, not t2 (imHo)
Ok fair enough, you all realise though that nerfing tech 1 mobile units brings the emphasis back to statics, particularly in team games where players front off against each other with lines of defence?
Thus it'll become harder to breakthrough walls of llts/hlts or whatever combinations people use and it will become more of a tech rush again, to get some units that can actually HURT a solid t1 defence.
Nothing wrong with this, although i find it to be less interesting, less action and more waiting around than when static def can actually be pushed through, broken down, destroyed. Llts are already better damage cost for cost against flash tanks and gators. Nerfing them will increase this margin.
Nerfiing tech 1 units is going to put the attacking player at a bigger disadvantage in a stand-off game, where the defending player has overpowered static defence which simply rapes the flash/gator when assisted by his own l1 units.
I guess this will shift the balance to use of other units besides flash/gator on the plus side, where smart use of artillery will be more useful to break down a solid static line, but i feel a change like this will put more emphasis on "whoever comm rushes some defence furthest, quickest, will get tech 2 first, and generally win", as opposed to the current situation where its easier to battle your way back if this happens.
Not saying i'm right, just my opinion.. The fact is that static defence will seem buffed without actually being changed, if l1 units are nerfed. Are we happy with this?
Thus it'll become harder to breakthrough walls of llts/hlts or whatever combinations people use and it will become more of a tech rush again, to get some units that can actually HURT a solid t1 defence.
Nothing wrong with this, although i find it to be less interesting, less action and more waiting around than when static def can actually be pushed through, broken down, destroyed. Llts are already better damage cost for cost against flash tanks and gators. Nerfing them will increase this margin.
Nerfiing tech 1 units is going to put the attacking player at a bigger disadvantage in a stand-off game, where the defending player has overpowered static defence which simply rapes the flash/gator when assisted by his own l1 units.
I guess this will shift the balance to use of other units besides flash/gator on the plus side, where smart use of artillery will be more useful to break down a solid static line, but i feel a change like this will put more emphasis on "whoever comm rushes some defence furthest, quickest, will get tech 2 first, and generally win", as opposed to the current situation where its easier to battle your way back if this happens.
Not saying i'm right, just my opinion.. The fact is that static defence will seem buffed without actually being changed, if l1 units are nerfed. Are we happy with this?
I think I have a good solution to the scout vehicle issue.
Make the scout vehicle laser have a high damage (so 1 shot kills a mex) but short range and high reload time. Also make it weak enough where it dies from 1 llt shot. This would make it effective at raiding but poor at assaulting or skirmishing.
Make the scout vehicle laser have a high damage (so 1 shot kills a mex) but short range and high reload time. Also make it weak enough where it dies from 1 llt shot. This would make it effective at raiding but poor at assaulting or skirmishing.
It only makes sense to nerf flash/gator if the plasma tanks can take over their role as defense busters. Also, there will likely be greater use of artillery, which is a good thing. I agree with those who say flash/gator should be raiding units, and not the end all, be all lvl 1 attack unit.DemO wrote:Stuff
Are you nuts??? its comments like that that reck our 1v1 games. The main problem with weasels is that they a) can run straight past defence... and kill on along the way b) kill coms with ease...Make the scout vehicle laser have a high damage (so 1 shot kills a mex) but short range and high reload time. Also make it weak enough where it dies from 1 llt shot. This would make it effective at raiding but poor at assaulting or skirmishing.
so ok, you up the damage, each weasel fires a shot at the com, and its gg even faster
. Maybe it's time to start playing 1v1's det???