[SPOILERS]AMAGAWD SUPCOM BETA!

[jackalope]

TBH I might donate $50 to Doctors Without Borders and pirate SupCom, just to make a statement.

What statement is that? Despite the fact you think helping poor sick kids is more important than a luxury like video games, you will steal in order to play one?

[ZellSF]

Personally I found it rather... meh.

It will probably be redesigned but the GUI is made of complete 100% fail. Yuk.

Did anyone notice... THe maps in supcom really aren't that big. It's the fact that the units are so small. For example, the scout guy next to a tree. It's comperable to a tree next to a somewhat oversize car.

Agreed. I only played one 'full' game (in which I gave up, I was being powned) but man... it is like FA said: the units are TINY. the playing area real-estate size is tiny, too. if you zoom out enough to be able to see what's going on, it's too far out to see what units you're trying to control.

2 of my 3 games went as following:
1: issue orders
2: zoom out
3: crash

I don't like the zoom out 'feature'. for one, it's the opposite mousewheel action to spring, and for another it seems to kill my PC (can't even page out or kill the process).

I promise: Spring is a lot more fun at the moment. the GFX in supcom is better but the gameplay, interface and ... everything, sucks.

woohoo! ctrl b selecting and centering on an IDLE builder, for the win!

I honestly don't think that the maps are much bigger than in TA spring. the units ARE just smaller. (opinion may vary after a couple more games, if I can be bothered)

the maps also look pretty bad.

looks more like an alpha.

Wait. You've played 3 games? And compare it to something you've must have played, what, 50 games of at least?

There goes your credibility.

For what it's worth, I find Supreme Commander's interface to better than Spring's. Mainly because how you can see total resources in/out and get information on how much building something will take each "tick", so you can easily see if an advanced structure will ruin your economy. Also, seeing idle builders is a plus, rather than hitting ctrl-b all the time. And the sorting build options by tech level. I hope they fix the minimap by the final though.


Edit: Hmm, you can add AIs to LAN games, does host only use CPU on that?

[Neddie]

Zell, at this point, you're pushing your views alone on a larger group of informed individuals who happen to disagree with you - which is nothing new for the Spring community. Could you at least be tactful about it, and stop yelling fire at every turn? It's destroying this discussion.

[ZellSF]

Zell, at this point, you're pushing your views alone on a larger group of informed individuals who happen to disagree with you - which is nothing new for the Spring community. Could you at least be tactful about it, and stop yelling fire at every turn? It's destroying this discussion.

Wait. What?

I'm not even doing personal offences yet. Are you telling me comparing a game you've played 3 games of against one you surely have played 50 of is fair?

Stating my opinion is hardly pushing my views on everyone. At least my post was on topic, rather than randomly accusing people of stuff.

[Felix the Cat]

Zell, at this point, you're pushing your views alone on a larger group of informed individuals who happen to disagree with you - which is nothing new for the Spring community. Could you at least be tactful about it, and stop yelling fire at every turn? It's destroying this discussion.

Wait. What?

I'm not even doing personal offences yet. Are you telling me comparing a game you've played 3 games of against one you surely have played 50 of is fair?

Yes. Do you expect everyone to play 50 games of SupCom before they decide if they like it or not?

Stating my opinion is hardly pushing my views on everyone. At least my post was on topic, rather than randomly accusing people of stuff.

Wait. You've played 3 games? And compare it to something you've must have played, what, 50 games of at least?

There goes your credibility.

Hardly "your opinion" on SupCom. More like ad hominem.

What statement is that? Despite the fact you think helping poor sick kids is more important than a luxury like video games, you will steal in order to play one?

The statement is that the features that SupCom has that Spring doesn't won't be worth anywhere near the difference in price between SupCom and Spring, but if I want to get a game of an RTS I'm going to have to have SupCom because the vast majority of people who play RTSs have enough money/their parents have enough money that shelling out $50 for minor visual upgrades, and so Spring will be left with like 20 people online at peak hours.

Actually, I'm even more likely to pirate SupCom and pocket the money, now that you mention it.

[Candleman]

Now you're just being pissy. Neddie's trying to warn you, not flame.

Is liking a game you've played more a crime? If I like something, I tend to like it more than things I don't like. As is the case here. Granted, SupCom is new and takes getting used to, but no one (besides you, apparently) likes anything before knowing what to do with it.

[ZellSF]

Now you're just being pissy. Neddie's trying to warn you, not flame.

Warning me because I'm doing nothing wrong? Yeah. Funny that.

Hardly "your opinion" on SupCom. More like ad hominem.

More like pointing out important part someone might miss from his post. As his credibility on Supreme Commander vs TA Spring is quite low when he has only played 3 games of one, where two of them has crashed, I might add. I might emphasize here that I meant his credibility in that argument, not his credibility as a person otherwise.

Yes. Do you expect everyone to play 50 games of SupCom before they decide if they like it or not?

I don't. I'm just saying the comparison isn't fair at all. I wouldn't have liked TA: Spring by the impression I got from the first three games. Hell, I wouldn't have liked it by the impression I got by the first 20 games.

[Felix the Cat]

Then why on Earth do you play it if you didn't like the first 20 games? Masochist tendencies or something?

[ZellSF]

Then why on Earth do you play it if you didn't like the first 20 games? Masochist tendencies or something?

Ah, see, that was because I realized I didn't understand the game in the first twenty games. I realized I would have a better time playing it when I knew it better.

Pretty much like the situation is for Supreme Commander right now, I don't fully understand lots of stuff about it. No one has answered me about a good build queue either. Which I'm having really huge problems figuring out.

[Argh]

Hmm. On the whole, I found it less than exciting. The graphics, honestly, aren't all that special- I was far more impressed with Earth:2160 myself. And I think that once more mods are making use of the particle-FX stuff built into Spring and just now emerging on our feature list, Spring on a top-end system will look far better, tbh. I think half of the "graphics are better" comments have to be coming from people whose systems cannot handle Spring at full rez with all the bells and whistles on. Go here if you want to see how beautiful Spring really is.

The gameplay... er... well, I built NanoBlobs, and quite frankly, I was struck by the resemblences more than the differences. It's just slower, and the game designers put so many hitpoints into the ZOMG ZUPER UNITZ that they feel like Godzilla, even if it's patently obvious that cheaper stuff in swarms is probably much more bang-for-buck, if unit-count hasn't been reached.

The GUI is ok, but I think Spring's is actually superior, myself. Sure, stats are nice and all, but I found the interface was actually quite a bit less freeform than Spring's, and I really don't care about %built stats for my current projects- if I'm too dumb to know what's going on and manage my multi-front assault on opposing forces, then I deserve to lose. Methinks that the leet gamers will not give a darn, either.

If you've seen Earth:2160 you'll understand why the graphics aren't that cool- SC is about one step above the latest DoW, but not that nice, and unlike Spring, people with lower-end systems are left out.

And I really loathe the style of the art- don't get me wrong, I'm sure it really appeals to the OTA crowd, so this is just a subjective opinion... but it smacks of "we have no new ideas". SC's units look like unrealistic blotches of team-color that resolve into ok-but-not-awesome normal-mapped blotches of teamcolor with fiddley bitz. And I haven't seen much that suggests that modding this engine will allow for the freedoms we have in Spring, let alone OSRTS. I will withhold further judgement until the final product, but quite frankly, it is surprisingly underwhelming.

[ZellSF]

Hmm. On the whole, I found it less than exciting. The graphics, honestly, aren't all that special- I was far more impressed with Earth:2160 myself. And I think that once more mods are making use of the particle-FX stuff built into Spring and just now emerging on our feature list, Spring on a top-end system will look far better, tbh. I think half of the "graphics are better" comments have to be coming from people whose systems cannot handle Spring at full rez with all the bells and whistles on. Go here if you want to see how beautiful Spring really is.

After seeing those screenshots, I'm more convinced than ever that Supreme Commander is by far prettier looking :P I run TA: Spring at 1600x1200 with pretty much all graphic settings on full. I run Supreme Commander with all graphic settings on low (but still in 1600x1200).

I still say Total Annihilation is better looking than TA Spring too, for that matter.

And I haven't seen much that suggests that modding this engine will allow for the freedoms we have in Spring

Doesn't the current 1944 mod for Spring use nanolathes?

The gameplay... er... well, I built NanoBlobs, and quite frankly, I was struck by the resemblences more than the differences. It's just slower, and the game designers put so many hitpoints into the ZOMG ZUPER UNITZ that they feel like Godzilla, even if it's patently obvious that cheaper stuff in swarms is probably much more bang-for-buck, if unit-count hasn't been reached.

Have you tested this? I'm curious if this is true or not.

[Muzic]

Will anyone post screen shots or is that illegalz?

[Argh]

I'm not going to argue about the graphics. That gets into subjective stuff that really doesn't matter much. I just think that the engine looks far less advanced, graphically, than what I was hoping to see. Where are the extensive per-pixel shaders? Where's a really advanced shadow model? Even the dynamic lighting was less impressive than Earth:2160's.

The current mod for 1944 uses nanolathes, yes. But that is not required by Spring at this time. It's not my fault if some other modders haven't gotten around to using Spring's latest features

And no, I'm not going to torture-test the game design to tell you more about balance- you'll have to figure out a good build-tree strat yourself

I was hard-pressed to find the spare time to play the copy of SC I installed for two hours as it was- a friend gave it to me and I decided I should see it before I decided whether it was worth paying further attention to. My final judgement is, "no".

[Fanger]

Im gonna have to go with argh here, It runs rather slow, and you can say they didnt optimize it, but I have to ask you, how much more can they optimize it.. It actually is not that impressive at all not compared to games like COH, and so forth.. graphically its not much more potent than those..

I found there to be to few units for such an "epic" game, the gameplay feels slow and sluggish, the GUI is neither here nor there imo, though GUI never really go one way or another on me..

I also got the feel that it is either a porcish tech fest, or some sort of leet rushing mess.. depending on the skill of the players..

I cant really put my finger on the exact point but the game feels kinda meh... wierd but true..

[ZellSF]

I'm not going to argue about the graphics.

I wasn't arguing. If I was, my reply would be far longer. There's really not much to argue about a subjective matter like that anyway.

The current mod for 1944 uses nanolathes, yes. But that is not required by Spring at this time. It's not my fault if some other modders haven't gotten around to using Spring's latest features

As interesting as that might be, what matters is what the end user sees. And last time I checked, Nanoblobs had team coloured nanolathes. Last time I checked was a while ago though, you changed it?

I was hard-pressed to find the spare time to play the copy of SC I installed for two hours as it was- a friend gave it to me and I decided I should see it before I decided whether it was worth paying further attention to. My final judgement is, "no".

Are you judging that with or without thinking about eventual Supreme Commander mods?

[Argh]

what matters is what the end user sees

Granted, but again, that's not my problem. It's the 1944 mod's problem. And I am quite sure that modders will run into many such issues with SC... and unlike Spring, they won't be able to write code to correct things, like I have, even if it was just very small stuff, like making weapons detect hits on small units correctly

last time I checked, Nanoblobs had team coloured nanolathes

Yeah, because:

1. Personally, I don't mind them. Most users seem to like them as well. So it's a low priority.
2. I haven't had the time to rebuild the AutoFac and build new animations or new models for the Lord and Sheep that would portray them "building" things without nanospray. It's not that I wouldn't prefer something more "realistic", but I'm a one-man show.

Are you judging that with or without thinking about eventual Supreme Commander mods?

I'm judging that as an elite, experienced modder, who cannot for the life of me see why I'd want to jump ship from a successful and vibrant Open Source project that I could compile, slap my product's name on and sell, if I so desired... as opposed to helping GPG make more money by extending the sales life of their product, while hating the hard-coded things that I wouldn't be able to get around and they wouldn't be willing to release info for, let alone fix... when they haven't produced an engine that I find all that interesting despite the months of pre-release hype, and I have yet to see a modder's SDK, plug-in content creation software, map specifications, or anything else of a serious nature. In short, if they were hoping that this release would be tempting, like the betas for Source were... then they failed.

[Quanto042]

I have to go with Argh and many of the others here, after seriously TRYING to like SupCom, i just couldn't.

The interface is completely too huge, i can barely tell what i'm looking at, the waypointing system is clunky and awkward at best. Every time i clicked my mouse, i would get a momentary freeze. And here's the real kicker, my computer isn't even that old. I got all the best hardware available for my current generation Mobo, and i've been able to run spring and all other game, including source engine games and doom3 engine games with relative ease. And here i am trying to run supcom, and the interface alone makes my computer chug. On top of that, for a game that's supposed to pay homage to TA, has anyone else noticed the lack of variety of lvl1 units? (at least for UEF)

I mean, come on chris, i know u can do better than this.


I sure as hell hope the game isn't this clunky in the final release.

[Ishach]

Will anyone post screen shots or is that illegalz?

I'll try and take some shots, but they are a real pain to do.


Ctrl+F brings up a windows Save Dialogue which freezes your game, as well as brining the dialogue up BEHIND the game window.

[Comp1337]

orly yes. Comp, warning.

http://garage.gaspowered.com/?q=node/6959
Not trying to defy your adminship and all, but GPG don't mind people playing the beta on lan. See DT12s post in that thread.

[CoolColJ]

anyway I think it's way overhyped right now! It's basicly TA with extra bits and bobs, and the maps look ghastly.
The scale is all wrong, the maps may say 20x20km, but the maps aren't really that big, it's just the units are small! And when you zoom out enough to see the action the units are dots, but the scale feels funny...like the scale is faked...

but the AI is very good I'll give it that - you do get a choice of easy, hard, rush, balanced etc type personalities

overall I think TA spring is better! But it's not as quite as slick looking, although the SC beta looks very average anyway, but TA spring is free!
Latest version of TA spring has a much better interface and just feels right.

Looks more alpha than beta right now...
I can't put my finger on it, but it's not fun to play, it's missing that "x" factor.
It runs very slow for what you get, and it ain't no COH. And the art style is yuck