Absolute Annihilation 2.23
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Hrrm well seems microed instis seem to do better against flashes then I thought, but they could still do with a little tweak imo, maybe some of the games ive played my opponent hasnt microed instis properly, I dunno guess we'll see how it pans out as people play more. Your replays dont really show how a normal battle would go but then neither did my replays, but I did mention that ^^
What id also like to see is flash and insti metal for metal against bulldogs and reapers as last time I tried it it seemed flashes owned them all hard, but im off on holiday tomorrow so, meh I probably wont be able to try.
BTW has anyone used the aa l2 kbots much, are they balanced now with the hp reduction or still to powerful?
What id also like to see is flash and insti metal for metal against bulldogs and reapers as last time I tried it it seemed flashes owned them all hard, but im off on holiday tomorrow so, meh I probably wont be able to try.
BTW has anyone used the aa l2 kbots much, are they balanced now with the hp reduction or still to powerful?
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EXit_W0und
- Posts: 164
- Joined: 22 Dec 2005, 01:33
I'd like to suggest an idea that may help with the balancing problems which are now becoming smaller but harder to detect and fix. It's not an original idea but when i saw the results of it i thought we should do this more often.
Basically Caydr selects someone or a group to play test a small aspect of AA to death, and adjusting the stats as they iterate to make each test hopefully more balanced. So for example 1 group would test level 2 arm and core vehicles balance, another would do the same for level 2 kbot etc.
The end results (final values) are then posted to Cadyr to test with the rest.
This is exactly what happened with the naval balance and judging from the end results it worked quite well. The difficult part of this is in selecting who to do this. They would need to be willing for a start, have a logical way of testing things and have played this game extensively (say, >12000 minutes?).
Basically Caydr selects someone or a group to play test a small aspect of AA to death, and adjusting the stats as they iterate to make each test hopefully more balanced. So for example 1 group would test level 2 arm and core vehicles balance, another would do the same for level 2 kbot etc.
The end results (final values) are then posted to Cadyr to test with the rest.
This is exactly what happened with the naval balance and judging from the end results it worked quite well. The difficult part of this is in selecting who to do this. They would need to be willing for a start, have a logical way of testing things and have played this game extensively (say, >12000 minutes?).
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1v0ry_k1ng
- Posts: 4656
- Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 10:24
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EXit_W0und
- Posts: 164
- Joined: 22 Dec 2005, 01:33
I only gave those as examples, the groups would still have to take into account balance against defence or ground against air etc, all the main scenarios would be tested. The reason i suggest this is that its a large amount of testing to do for 1 person. Perhaps there should be 1 group of say 3-4 testing each scenario in turn, rather than separate groups working in isolation and coming up with different results. But either way a small test group dedicated to this could reduce a lot of the arguing.
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EXit_W0und
- Posts: 164
- Joined: 22 Dec 2005, 01:33
I just did some tests on the Janus vs both flash and gators - I don't think the Janus lives up to its purpose of anti-swarm tank very well.
They still die badly to equal costs of flash or gators.
Here is the replay:
http://www.filelodge.com/files/room47/1 ... 73b1-1.sdf
It's never going to be able to out-maneuver a flash or gator - nor should it.
I'd suggest keeping it'd DPS but reducing the damage and reload so there isn't such a huge amount of time where the Janus is a sitting duck.
They still die badly to equal costs of flash or gators.
Here is the replay:
http://www.filelodge.com/files/room47/1 ... 73b1-1.sdf
It's never going to be able to out-maneuver a flash or gator - nor should it.
I'd suggest keeping it'd DPS but reducing the damage and reload so there isn't such a huge amount of time where the Janus is a sitting duck.
They aren't primarily anti-swarm tanks, if they're marked as such I'll change that. They're intended for hit and run on high HP targets. Run into range, fire a salvo, get outta there, repeat. They have extremely high damage per hit, but their damage per second is very low because of their slow reload.
This is why they have very good turning and above average speed.
I'm reaaaaaally irritated with the standard impulsefactor increase. It's too high and I don't like L1 units getting blown around so much that they're useless. Going to revert it to 0.123.
Aside from that, I'm going to globablly weaken mobile anti-air units by about 10%, as well as the following changes:
Reduced EMG, flamethrower weapon loudness
Flash HP reduced by 10 (610->600)
EMG weapon sprayangle increased (accuracy reduced)
Panther HP reduced by 75, missile firing rate reduced to 2.5
(1.5), lightning recharge time increased to 1.85 (1.7),
energy cost inrcreased by 1000
Heavy tank ranges rebalanced
Dominator HP increased by 100
Morty HP increased by 50
That "heavy tank range rebalance" thing basically means that all tanks are having their max range reduced by a small amount for weaker units, and by a larger amount for stronger units (though stronger still has longer range). So for instance, Goliath now has 550 range where it had about 570 before. Bulldog (this was actually a typo I guess) is no longer the longest-ranged tank in the game, with a range of about 530 I think. So what this means is that L1 units will still be able to get within range of L2 units and hopefully get a couple of shots off too, before they're blown to smithereens. It will also increase the use of artillery units a little, since artillery isn't affected by this.
As fun(ny) as it is to be on the dealing end of huge-impulse weapons, to be the one getting hit is just frustrating. They should be strong, but not so much that a single hit with compounded impulse will blow away everything you've got. Impulse is NOT a vital element of this game, and gameplay should not be dependant on it. It should be a perk, a bonus, a visual effect for certain weapons. In some cases, yes, it should be a major bonus, like in the case of levelers or tremors. But I have the same stance on impulse as I do on cratering - good for special occasions, but not for everything.
Anything to add?
This is why they have very good turning and above average speed.
I'm reaaaaaally irritated with the standard impulsefactor increase. It's too high and I don't like L1 units getting blown around so much that they're useless. Going to revert it to 0.123.
Aside from that, I'm going to globablly weaken mobile anti-air units by about 10%, as well as the following changes:
Reduced EMG, flamethrower weapon loudness
Flash HP reduced by 10 (610->600)
EMG weapon sprayangle increased (accuracy reduced)
Panther HP reduced by 75, missile firing rate reduced to 2.5
(1.5), lightning recharge time increased to 1.85 (1.7),
energy cost inrcreased by 1000
Heavy tank ranges rebalanced
Dominator HP increased by 100
Morty HP increased by 50
That "heavy tank range rebalance" thing basically means that all tanks are having their max range reduced by a small amount for weaker units, and by a larger amount for stronger units (though stronger still has longer range). So for instance, Goliath now has 550 range where it had about 570 before. Bulldog (this was actually a typo I guess) is no longer the longest-ranged tank in the game, with a range of about 530 I think. So what this means is that L1 units will still be able to get within range of L2 units and hopefully get a couple of shots off too, before they're blown to smithereens. It will also increase the use of artillery units a little, since artillery isn't affected by this.
As fun(ny) as it is to be on the dealing end of huge-impulse weapons, to be the one getting hit is just frustrating. They should be strong, but not so much that a single hit with compounded impulse will blow away everything you've got. Impulse is NOT a vital element of this game, and gameplay should not be dependant on it. It should be a perk, a bonus, a visual effect for certain weapons. In some cases, yes, it should be a major bonus, like in the case of levelers or tremors. But I have the same stance on impulse as I do on cratering - good for special occasions, but not for everything.
Anything to add?
Last edited by Caydr on 26 Oct 2006, 22:34, edited 1 time in total.
My thoughts about 2.23 and a few units that annoy me.
Tremor's Impulse is annoyingly strong, and so its the spread of its fire.
Mavericks Combat heal is too strong, if its going to heal itself as fast as it does, it needs to heal at a lower HP % per cycle, its nearly impossible to kill 1v1 with any single unit in sometimes cases of units at or above its metal costs.
As is, it can dominate even large groups of LVL-1 by running away, and after it survives it not only nearly instantly healed itself, but has added HP from experience as well.
Shield Batteries need to have a tiny bit more range, and burn 2x-4x their current rate of energy per Bertha shot. Now that they only reflect Bertha Artilley and nothing else, they're a dedicated special unit and costs need to go up to reflect it.
Currently at 1000 E per tick during deflection, a single fusion or even a fair LVL-1 Economy can sustain 1 shield indefinately, it needs to cost more per deflection to keep things fair, and the small range increase to keep edge tolerances good.
Static, and Mobile Flak eats air incredibly fast, maybe due to the large area in which it does damage.
Mainstay Gunships (Brawler, Rapier) get dominated by Flak and Mobile flak so fast its not even funny. you could send a group of 15-20 against 1 flak emplacement and lose every single gunship faster than you can blink.
Even heavy Air units such as Krow gets dominated by flak.
Bombers seem to be quite remarkable, their damage is good, and the 1 thing that makes bombers as strong as they are is that by the time they get into range of Flak, or other Anti-Air units, they've already dropped their ordinance, so even if they die, their damage has already been dealt.
LvL-1 fighters are good, LvL-2 fighters are even better, they perform their role as anti-air perfectly, no changes needed IMO.
Dt's block heavy tanks, this just seems silly.
LVL-1 Dt should block lvl-1 units and other units of equivalent weight and size, and LVL-2 walls should block lvl-2 units and units of equal size and weight, it worked best that way.
About the Janus change, I'd prefer to see its Missle shots staggered to increase firing speed instead of weakened or its impulse removed, Its ARM's equivalent of the Leveler tank and it should stay that way.
Tremor's Impulse is annoyingly strong, and so its the spread of its fire.
Mavericks Combat heal is too strong, if its going to heal itself as fast as it does, it needs to heal at a lower HP % per cycle, its nearly impossible to kill 1v1 with any single unit in sometimes cases of units at or above its metal costs.
As is, it can dominate even large groups of LVL-1 by running away, and after it survives it not only nearly instantly healed itself, but has added HP from experience as well.
Shield Batteries need to have a tiny bit more range, and burn 2x-4x their current rate of energy per Bertha shot. Now that they only reflect Bertha Artilley and nothing else, they're a dedicated special unit and costs need to go up to reflect it.
Currently at 1000 E per tick during deflection, a single fusion or even a fair LVL-1 Economy can sustain 1 shield indefinately, it needs to cost more per deflection to keep things fair, and the small range increase to keep edge tolerances good.
Static, and Mobile Flak eats air incredibly fast, maybe due to the large area in which it does damage.
Mainstay Gunships (Brawler, Rapier) get dominated by Flak and Mobile flak so fast its not even funny. you could send a group of 15-20 against 1 flak emplacement and lose every single gunship faster than you can blink.
Even heavy Air units such as Krow gets dominated by flak.
Bombers seem to be quite remarkable, their damage is good, and the 1 thing that makes bombers as strong as they are is that by the time they get into range of Flak, or other Anti-Air units, they've already dropped their ordinance, so even if they die, their damage has already been dealt.
LvL-1 fighters are good, LvL-2 fighters are even better, they perform their role as anti-air perfectly, no changes needed IMO.
Dt's block heavy tanks, this just seems silly.
LVL-1 Dt should block lvl-1 units and other units of equivalent weight and size, and LVL-2 walls should block lvl-2 units and units of equal size and weight, it worked best that way.
About the Janus change, I'd prefer to see its Missle shots staggered to increase firing speed instead of weakened or its impulse removed, Its ARM's equivalent of the Leveler tank and it should stay that way.
Last edited by MR.D on 27 Oct 2006, 00:57, edited 5 times in total.
Isn't Caydr's whole point that it isn't just an Arm Leveler, and that it fulfills a separate role more in-line with Arm's perspective? I think Core should have some L1 that demonstrates its raw combat superiority, while Arm should have something that demonstrates its superior tactical capability in hit-and-runs. This is exactly the dichotomy presented by the Leveler and Janus. Of course, it'd be nice if the engine itself could be smarter at handling automatic unit behavior, allowing (for instance) for an attack order issued to a Janus to cause it to enter firing range, fire, and then retreat until it is safe to fire again. As it is, this has to be done through micro, which I've felt was never what TA was about. But I'll never win that argument--all of the "good" players are by definition strong micromanagers. But such automated behavior would, at least, clearly define the strengths of the Janus, and make them a bit more exploitable.MR.D wrote:About the Janus change, I'd prefer to see its Missle shots staggered to increase firing speed instead of weakened or its impulse removed, Its ARM's equivalent of the Leveler tank and it should stay that way.