Auto repair should be removed

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 16 May 2005, 10:16

Auto repair should be removed i think

Cheery · Post by **Cheery** » 16 May 2005, 10:31

I think it should be have better control, not removed completely, like that guy somewhere said, nanolathe cannot be done cloaked for example.

Also it shouldn't be able to do in action, and somebody says it should be removed from krogs because they are invincible that way, but it seems they aren't so invincible, 10 nuclear bombs at same time at it makes their job.

Newer ever attack krogoth with normal units or small artillery.

Doomweaver · Post by **Doomweaver** » 16 May 2005, 14:39

i think they should cost energy, and it should only occur while they are standing still.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 16 May 2005, 16:19

Cheery wrote: Newer ever attack krogoth with normal units or small artillery.

newer???
lol.
Screw u noize auto repair encourages micro espically in the begininng although i agree teh kroggie shouldn't autorepair so fast (it SHOULD still autorepair tho :))

Gabba · Post by **Gabba** » 16 May 2005, 16:19

Autorepair while moving was actually a feature request. It should probably cost something: I say metal, because - as we were discussing in another thread - then you can't reclaim & repair units at the same time to get more metal. But don't remove it; attack the repair units if there are a bunch of them around a Krogoth, they are easy to kill. One nuke hitting the Krogoth will make short work of his little repair friends.

zwzsg · Post by **zwzsg** » 16 May 2005, 17:15

Don't confuse the repair where a construction unit uses its nanostream on another unit, and the self auto repair where a unit health slowly rises up by itself if left standing still long enough.

Frog · Post by **Frog** » 16 May 2005, 17:36

It should be an option and not mandatory.

Doomweaver · Post by **Doomweaver** » 17 May 2005, 09:21

Yeah, actually, get rid of it. If modders want it, which i guarantee they will, it should be easy to script (I think).

Sean Mirrsen · Post by **Sean Mirrsen** » 17 May 2005, 12:43

What scripting? Is the healtime tag not enough? If the unit has it, unit should heal if left alone for so much seconds. You can then specify a healamount tag, to set how much health it gains per tick.

Gabba · Post by **Gabba** » 17 May 2005, 17:10

zwzsg wrote:Don't confuse the repair where a construction unit uses its nanostream on another unit, and the self auto repair where a unit health slowly rises up by itself if left standing still long enough.

Thanks for clarifying, I did get confused.

So now: I think the self-repairing should be left in, it reduces micro-management (no need to bring a repair unit around, etc.) However it should only activate after a certain time of total inaction, that is, the unit must not move or fire or do anything for a certain time for the self-repairing to start. Also, it must stop as soon as the unit moves/fires/does anything.

FLOZi · Post by **FLOZi** » 17 May 2005, 18:56

It is not needed as the OTA healtime .fbi tag allows a modder to set a specific healing rate themselves, I don't see why units need to, mandatorily, do it themselves as well.

Gabba · Post by **Gabba** » 17 May 2005, 21:04

FLOZi wrote:It is not needed as the OTA healtime .fbi tag allows a modder to set a specific healing rate themselves, I don't see why units need to, mandatorily, do it themselves as well.

Maybe because the SY think it's a design feature? It's a change in gameplay, which I personally think is a good thing. Just pretend all units have an integrated small nanolathe. Using only the .fbi tag you mention, unit designers can make a few special units that self-heal, but that's a wholly different story. Now if all units are self-healing, maybe the tag can be used to set a different healing rate, but it's better to have game-wide variables with auto-calculation than unit-specific ones, otherwise balancing becomes a nightmare.

Sean Mirrsen · Post by **Sean Mirrsen** » 18 May 2005, 00:21

Having this system can result in possible autonomous strongholds, where defences will autorepair between attacks. If this was as a forced measure, turning off the unit to let it repair, that would be a feature worth considering. In Submarine Titans, you could set any building on autorepair at the cost of turning the thing off.

And really, if we'd need a race of self-repairing mechanisms, we'd make one, but I don't like enemy's defences autorepairing if I fail an attack, with the enemy not doing a thing to actually repair them.

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 18 May 2005, 05:00

I don't like all this optional stuff. In vanilla versions, it should either stay, or go. Modders can easily do what they like with it.

My vote is that it should stay.
I think for the most part it eases micromanagement, rather than make things invincible.
Of course, it does have to be limited, but again, none of this "stop for 10 seconds" or "only use energy", such systems are far too complicated and unecessary. What if I'm stalling on energy/metal? I don't want to have the drain on my economy of 15 units self-healing themselves! And I don't want another GUI button to turn it off!

All you need to do is make the self heal times much longer. Twice as longer, if you need.

If it takes a long time for units to heal themselves, then you won't have issues with invulnerable krogs, or defenses that are in perfect condition when you return to lay the death blow.

However, I do think that if left to their own, you would get around to repairing your krog eventually, and you would get around to repairing your defenses. All the slow self heal does is mean that you don't have to waste your time sorting this out as much.
If you attack a defensive position, fail, and attack again a few minutes later, you could be assured that it'll be in more or less the same shape you left it. But if you attack again in ten minutes, then by all rights these defenses have had enough time to repair themselves. It just saves the defending player the trouble of sending a con. out there to fix it up.
Of course, having patrolling cons to keep an eye on your defensive lines wouldn't be redundant, because the self-heal would be so slow that in emergency situations, the con would be your only hope.

Gabba · Post by **Gabba** » 18 May 2005, 05:30

Good Warlord Zsinj, I couldn't have said it better.

mongus · Post by **mongus** » 18 May 2005, 07:01

Cheery wrote:and somebody says it should be removed from krogs because they are invincible that way, but it seems they aren't so invincible, 10 nuclear bombs at same time at it makes their job.
[/i]

Ten nuclears dont kill a krog.
Niether 15 nuclears with 10 shots each (150 nuclear shots).
maybe 170 180...
try it.

Anyhow... there is a bug using so much nuclear missiles at once, because some of them dont hit... like missed by 3-5 each group shot...

Take a look at screen77 78 79 80

As per autorepair... i like this... makes units more valuable... not like in total... you never got to like (care) one special unit there... all was carnage.. sent to death!...
In spring i usually send many units to hell.. but sometimes i stop and take time to rest some special (exp) unit, so it can recover and get back to hell in good condition...
Maybe hp recover is a bit fast right now... but.. that is a delicate balance issue.. if its too slow.. well.. its not worth the wait... you would send to carnage all units anyhow...
Have you waited a krog to self heal to max? it takes like 15-30 minutes ( no less than 15), to heal (an experienced one). if you do it with 4 necros, maybe its like 5-8 minutes.
Still a long time i think.

Back to the Krog issue, ppl dont use to build DDM or a lot of Annihilators....
Also, 7-10 goliaths can take a krog.
I did stop 2 krogs SIMULTANEOSULY the other day... i had like... 12-17 DDM spread. TWO KROGGOTHS at the SAME time. (finally game crashed, but thats another issue)
with 5... DDM you can kill 1 krog.
12 Annihilators will do the work fine.
i think by the time the other player has build a krog, you can build more defenses than 12 Ann, and also attack normally.
Ive seen kroggs die in (guns) hands of ... 20-30 brawlers?...
I say you are just whiners.
As this very poll.
Go try a little harder, and stop whinning about everything!
and if you really really find it unbalanced... make your own MOD.

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 18 May 2005, 07:46

Well, I believe that is a textbook example of Verbal Diarrhea.

I hear they have pills to help that these days.

Arsenic or something...

Doomweaver · Post by **Doomweaver** » 18 May 2005, 10:26

I thought that because of their extreme life in XTA the healing was also extreme...? if so, well, we can just rebalance XTA for spring so that Krogos have about 1/2 the health they do currently.

el_muchacho · Post by **el_muchacho** » 18 May 2005, 13:20

Autorepair for the commander only.

SavageBT · Post by **SavageBT** » 18 May 2005, 13:44

Building a self sustaining/repairing defensive point was a fine art in TA, please dont take this away. Micromanagement is not always the enemy, it separates the good players from the indifferent. If you can't manage the game go play war3.
Sorry, that was harsh and there's nothing wrong with war3, but TA has always been an enthusiast's game - not a mainstream 'hold my hand while i learn to play' rts. If you want to play with 500 units accept losses or learn to manage them.

*ducks and covers*

Spring RTS Engine

Auto repair should be removed

should autorepair be removed

Auto repair should be removed