My [minor] suggestions for improving Spring visually

My [minor] suggestions for improving Spring visually

Various things about Spring that do not fit in any of the other forums listed below, including forum rules.

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Warlord Zsinj
Imperial Winter Developer
Posts: 3742
Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59

My [minor] suggestions for improving Spring visually

Post by Warlord Zsinj »

Well, I just got spring working on my new computer, and to be honest, I was stunned. The difference with shadows, reflections and proper lighting is massive, and the whole Spring world becomes far more real. An excellent job all round.

I do have some very minor suggestions based on what I've seen with Spring, which wouldn't be terribly obvious immediately, but together would generally make Spring have a more cohesive feel of a real world. These aren't criticisms at all; I think Spring is incredible as it is. They are just suggestions for potential improvements.

Well, here we go. I might add more later:

1) I think that weather conditions (I'm not talking about the blizzards and storms I was advocating, rather the conditions already in; being wind and tides) should have far more visual effect on the game. "Whats the wind like here?" Is a common question at the start of games.
This shouldn't come from knowing the map, or building a windgen to find out; rather, people should be able to see that it is windy. One easy way to do this is simply to make trees rustle and sway in the wind. If the wind is light, trees would slowly rustle, in a more random direction. If it is heavier, the trees will sway in the direction of the wind. If it is particularly gusty, the leaves of the trees would point in the direction of the wind, and would lean in the direction that the wind is blowing. It would be nice if, in such conditions, the trees even edjected leaf particles in the direction of the wind, which swirled around in the air (only visible when zoomed in close, of course).
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If you wanted to go further, you could have wind effect all particles produced, from explosion ejecta to dust and smoke (I remember in OTA, the steam from geothermal vents blew in the direction of the wind; I don't know if this happens in Spring).
The other gameplay effect is the tidal system. At the moment, all water always look like placid lakes, with minor ripples added to reflections. This is a very nice effect, but really it looks somewhat strange when you have a placid "lake" which is actually an ocean, and an ocean which is generating your tidal generators!
I think that tides should have a visible effect on the water. Firstly, this should be visible at the shore, where instead of just sitting neatly with the shore, it should move slightly up and down (much more so than it already does; not just up and down, but laterally inshore a little bit); the greater the tide, the further the oscillation, and the faster it moves. Waves are unnecessary. Not only would they be bloody hard to do, but they would probably look ridiculous as well. A simple slow ripple sway up and down the coast would be fine.
Secondly, if a tide is stronger, the sea should be a bit more chopped up and turbulent. This may be somewhat more difficult to do. Most games apply an animated texture to the sea. I don't think that this is really necessery to visually sell the idea that the sea is a bit turbulent. Instead, use what you already have that gives the impression that the water isn't actually glass: That is, reflections, wakes, and ship motion.
Reflections should become chopped and distorted in high-tides. Ship wakes should also imply a choppy sea by being wider and less streamlined; they should also splash at the front, showing the ship cutting through the water. Finally, ship movement can also bely heavy seas. If tides are high, ships should not move at a constant height from point A to B. Rather, as a ship progresses in heavy seas, it should be slowly lifted up and down as it moves. This doesn't have to be very much, and it shouldn't be quick at all; a slow lofting up and down of the boat (moving higher and lower if the tide is higher) would easily sell this intent, perhaps even include some lateral rocking as well. Indeed, if a boat is sitting still and not moving, the player would be able to see the ship being lifted up and down.
Of course, on a lake, or a low-tide area, everything would act and look much as it is now.
An image to give you an impression of a ship going through rough seas (obviously Spring wouldn't be as dramatic, but it does give you an idea)
Image

Now, those two suggestions were there so that there would be a visual connection between gameplay features and visual features. I think that the suggestions are rather minor and easy to implement, and if done so, would be to the benefit of both gameplay and graphics.

Onwards!

2) I think that Spring should come packed with ambient sounds. These sounds wouldn't be heard from high viewpoints, and would intensify from nothing to a clearly audible sound as you zoomed closer to whatever it was that was making the sound. Many games do this these days, and I think it is a nice feature which adds atmosphere.
For example, say you are above a lake, and you zoom right up to it, you would hear the sloshing of the lake against the land. Indeed, hooked with my previous tide suggestion, one could even have the sound of a chopped sea when hovering above a sea with high tides.
Other examples include the wind as you zoom in on grassland or desert, or the rustle of leaves (and perhaps sounds of birds/animals) as you zoom in on trees.
This should also be applied to units. While units make robotic acknowledgement noises at the start and completion of their orders, they are completely silent in between. Tanks should make the creaking noises of caterpillar tracks, Kbots should have the noise of robotic gears turning (if you're feeling really ambitious, you could even get foot stomp noises), aircraft should make flying noises as they go by. It makes for a far more atmospheric game.

Of course, I'm not saying that the SY's should go out and grab all these sounds, but it would be nice if the ability was programmed in. Indeed, on new maps, it might be worth setting your own soundbites to terrain, for example, slow bubbling of lava, or the low metallic hum of a metal world...

Next!

3) I think explosion effects on water (particularly big ones) should have that big upwards splash that you get with water explosions. This includes the upward torrent of water, the ripples which shoot out from the epicentre of the explosion, and the splash as the water comes down again. This should also have its own sound-effect. They should also be used for depth charge and torpedo explosions, I think.
Image
Image

4) While hovercraft wakes make sense, and look fantastic, I think ship wakes can be improved. To be entirely honest, I'm not quite sure how this can be done with a good compromise between not overloading the CPU, and making ship wakes look better. I think the best way would be to distort the sea around the ships, rather than creating a wake animation, but I don't understand Spring enough to know if this is possible.

Well, that's all from me for now, I've spent much longer on this than I intended too. I might be back later to add some stuff, but to summarise, these suggestions are intended as minor alterations which should not effect CPU issues, while making the game more visually attractive and realistic.

... oh, and I think we should be able to fly our nukes around :wink:
Sean Mirrsen
Posts: 578
Joined: 19 Aug 2004, 17:38

Post by Sean Mirrsen »

1) The Wind: all particles in the game are affected by the wind. Even more so, once I submit my code to the SY, cannon shots and freefalling missiles will be made affectable by the wind. I'll see if I can hack the treedrawer to make the trees sway, but don't count on it.

2)The tide and water: the easiest solution to the water thing would be to have the texture slowly scroll in the direction the wind is blowing (or a random direction). I am absolutely unsure that it is possible to make water go up and down (it is in essense a massive single-face plane that can't deform, or so I suspect). As for moving ripples, the shader systems are beyond my comprehension.

3)Water explosions: well, it's possible to create custom explosions with custom images and apply them to custom situations. So someday someone will probably get their hands on making this.

4)Ship wakes: it's also possible to make custom FX. If 3d wakes are added, it will be up to scripters to make their ships induce clouds of waterspray when moving.

5)Ambient sounds: It'll have to wait until a new map format, and a new, more advanced, map creating tool. Then you'll probably be able to define custom sounds, maybe even with a simple script language (like "if(numberoftreesclosetothecamera>5){emitAmbientSound(birds.wav);}" )

6)Flying nukes around: if aircraft collision damage will make it into Spring (it's currently off, you can test), you'll be able to build and fly your own nuke-blasting kamikaze war rockets.
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PauloMorfeo
Posts: 2004
Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53

Post by PauloMorfeo »

Sean Mirrsen wrote:...
2)The tide and water: the easiest solution to the water thing would be to have the texture slowly scroll in the direction the wind is blowing (or a random direction). I am absolutely unsure that it is possible to make water go up and down ...
Well, in games like Quake 3, we can see lava flow. I think it is just the texture moving around (beeing repositioned at diferent positions in the model?). There are also some skins that have movable textures in the body.

I'm thinking that if there were tides (water moving and we could see it), it would be fun to see boats working to keep in the same place, strugling to move against the tide or taking advantage of a favorable tide to move faster to attack an enemy...
But this would probably be unecessary complication.
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zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Joined: 16 Nov 2004, 13:08

Post by zwzsg »

I think the current wakes are really good looking and really realistic. Real-life wakes aren't cutting the sea in two like Moïse, they are, just like in Spring, flat white trail.

Image
Warlord Zsinj
Imperial Winter Developer
Posts: 3742
Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59

Post by Warlord Zsinj »

Wee, I've been there before! (cape town...)

---

Anyway, I still think that the wake effects should be redone slightly, particularly for larger ships... A wake like the one pictured is created when there is an engine sticking in the water, like on a speedboat. It is very different with a large steamliner. But I don't want to get caught up in a debate about it, because it isn't the most important part of what I put forward.
sparkyhodgo
Posts: 128
Joined: 24 Feb 2005, 19:05

Post by sparkyhodgo »

Spring needs dynamic lighting most badly of all. That allows all sorts of neat effects: illuminating units with explosions, shadows striking outwards from the epicenter of the explosion, day/night cycles, blue/red glows from the lightning cannons and flamethrowers.

Yes, Spring needs dynamic lighting.
Sean Mirrsen
Posts: 578
Joined: 19 Aug 2004, 17:38

Post by Sean Mirrsen »

If it weren't for the preprocessed landscape shading, adding time of day changing would be as easy as moving the sun.
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zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Joined: 16 Nov 2004, 13:08

Post by zwzsg »

Are you so sure the landscape shading is pre-processed? Cause the shading change in real-time with the craterisation.
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Zoombie
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Joined: 15 Mar 2005, 07:08

Post by Zoombie »

I only have ONE complaint to the effects of the Spring. But before i say it id like to say that i love takeing the gravity of a map and putting it to be 1. THis makes Air battles infinitly more fun to whatch! Because when a aircraft is out of controle it dosent crash. It gose off in a straight line spining wildly as it attamprs to reinsert controll. Then a enemy can pick it off causealy with a well aimed shot. Also why cant plaens have machine guns too, so they can fire off their machine guns then their misslses. Would look cool dmanit!

Now onto what i dont like: Nukes. THEY ARENT nukes they are jkust big bombs! Their is no mushroom cloud or anything. I WANT NUKES THAT ACT LIKE NUKES DAMNIT!. I want a musroom cloud, fallout, firestorm and shockwave. I want nukes to be ten times as powerfull and ten times as expensive. I want nukes to send out EMP shockwaves that make the camera static out as the EMP shorts it out. and when a nuke dropes in water... well. I want to see the water get scoped out and then have it implode back in! I want Underwater nuklear mines that will cut the water out from under then to have the crater implode back in.
Sean Mirrsen
Posts: 578
Joined: 19 Aug 2004, 17:38

Post by Sean Mirrsen »

I wanted to experiment to have harpoon-like missiles that gain altitude before slamming down on the target (while being forward-fired), and I wanted to make a fancy detection technique to have the nukes and vlaunch missiles disengage at a certain point automatically and drop ballistically on the target.
And mushroom clouds are feasible, someone just needs to make the proper sfx.
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Rayden
Posts: 377
Joined: 01 May 2005, 13:15

Post by Rayden »

With explosion of nuke a white blending of screen would look great and a fire ring on ground :-)
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